How realistic are gi grips?

[skribs]

It's been said that gi is for sport and no-gi is for MMA and self-defense. I can't really imagine a gi grip on my t-shirt giving my opponent much control over me. It's too loose and too stretchy to really offer much leverage. I think you're also more likely to rip the shirt or stretch it out than you are to effectively hurt me with it.

However, I can see some other types of clothing acting much more like a gi. Someone in trousers and a blazer is probably much closer to what we're used to (including having a belt).

There's a lot in between those to, and a lot tangential as well.

Is the gi grip more realistic than we might believe? Have you used gi grips in a non-gi setting?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I find the gi just as realistic as no gi. With the gi you're assuming on offense that you'll have some good cloth/leather/fabric to grip. With no gi you're assuming on defense that you're wearing nothing that could be used against you.

So both have flaws. That said, gi does a good job especially for beginners teaching how to grab/grip and how to get certain submissions and throws that are much more difficult to get without a gi.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Both gi and no-gi are relevant for a self-defense situation. You can even make effective use of t-shirt grips if you know how to do it right.

The main adjustment you have to make for street vs sport grips on the clothing is that for self-defense purposes you don't want to use clothing grips which leave your opponent in a position to hit you. There are a lot of sport-oriented gi grips which leave that possibility open. Fortunately there are also clothing grips you can use which help to shut down your opponent's strikes.

The more important lesson from gi training that applies to self-defense is that your opponent can use your clothing as a handle to control you. If you don't know how to deal with that, it can be problematic.

BTW - one reason some BJJ practitioners have that gi = sport mentality is that they don't ever practice mixing gi grappling with striking. It's a useful training modality and recommend that everyone try it out at least occasionally.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

there are also clothing grips you can use which help to shut down your opponent's strikes.

Agree! In the following clip, you can use right cross lapel grip to hide your head next to your right elbow, in case your opponent tries to use left free hand to punch you.



Also when you drag your opponent's clothes and run in circle, you can stay away from his back hand.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's been said that gi is for sport and no-gi is for MMA and self-defense. I can't really imagine a gi grip on my t-shirt giving my opponent much control over me. It's too loose and too stretchy to really offer much leverage. I think you're also more likely to rip the shirt or stretch it out than you are to effectively hurt me with it.

However, I can see some other types of clothing acting much more like a gi. Someone in trousers and a blazer is probably much closer to what we're used to (including having a belt).

There's a lot in between those to, and a lot tangential as well.

Is the gi grip more realistic than we might believe? Have you used gi grips in a non-gi setting?

In some ways, gi grips are more challenging than on normal clothing. My Judo gi (my preferred type) has a thick collar to make gripping more difficult (my only complaint about using a Judo gi), and the heavy cloth makes grabbing at the chest or back difficult. I could get a grip on someone's normal jacket or coat more easily in most cases.

I think it's a good idea to train gi, no-gi, and occasionally in "normal clothes" (where folks wear stuff more like they'd wear out and about) to see how those change affect technique and tactics.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think it's a good idea to train gi, no-gi, and occasionally in "normal clothes" (where folks wear stuff more like they'd wear out and about) to see how those change affect technique and tactics.

Some friends of mine at another gym recently had a celebration to renew their wedding vows, and as part of the event they invited everyone to show up on the mats for an hour of rolling in formal wear. (Jackets & ties/long dresses), I was the only one who had the guts to keep my tie on when we started rolling. My expectation was that I'd get choked out with the tie a few times and then I'd take it off and start using it to choke other people. But actually it ended up ripping in half during the first round as my sparring partner tried to choke me with it and I resisted.

 

[skribs]

Some friends of mine at another gym recently had a celebration to renew their wedding vows, and as part of the event they invited everyone to show up on the mats for an hour of rolling in formal wear. (Jackets & ties/long dresses), I was the only one who had the guts to keep my tie on when we started rolling. My expectation was that I'd get choked out with the tie a few times and then I'd take it off and start using it to choke other people. But actually it ended up ripping in half during the first round as my sparring partner tried to choke me with it and I resisted.

Have you seen Chewjitsu's Halloween tradition?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Have you seen Chewjitsu's Halloween tradition?

Yeah, I believe it’s an open invitation so I’ve thought about driving out to Louisville to take part in it, but I’ve never gotten around to it.

 

[skribs]

Yeah, I believe it’s an open invitation so I’ve thought about driving out to Louisville to take part in it, but I’ve never gotten around to it.

It'd take me probably a day and some change driving to get there. What's your excuse ?

 

[Jared Traveler]

The wedgy grip can be viable. It adds insult to injury on a throw.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can grab your opponent's shin if he doesn't have any clothes on.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, I believe it’s an open invitation so I’ve thought about driving out to Louisville to take part in it, but I’ve never gotten around to it.

I love this debate.

Gi, no gi?

You want reality throw punches.

 

[dunc]

I agree with @Tony Dismukes
Gi for when you &/or your partner is wearing a coat, hoodie etc, and no-gi for lighter clothing

Being able to grab clothing to control your opponent is very useful, including when striking is involved. Also it gives you a lot of safe options to take someone down and dominate them. By safe I mean safe for you whilst giving you a lot of control over your opponent thereby allowing you to use minimum force and avoiding ethical / legal issues down the line

It’s also very instinctive for untrained people to grab your clothing and hold on really hard which can be very disruptive if you don’t know how to deal with it. I’ve seen some folk advocate the idea of removing your jacket in a self defence situation to avoid this, but I don’t think that makes sense as it will afford some level of protection against weapons & kinda seems impractical in the moment

 

[Jared Traveler]

I agree with DUNC, the real value is in learning to mitigate someone controlling you either standing or on the ground, by grabbing your clothing.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I tell my students that gi training is good for sharpening your defense, because you are giving your opponent handles to control you with. So you can't rely on escaping bad positions or submissions via explosiveness and slipperiness. You have to use proper structure and technique to negate those controls.

By the same token, no-gi training is good for sharpening your offense, because you don't have those great handles for controlling your opponent. You have to use proper structure, positioning, and technique to negate your opponent's ability to escape via explosiveness and slipperiness.

 

[OffendedOnyx]

It's been said that gi is for sport and no-gi is for MMA and self-defense. I can't really imagine a gi grip on my t-shirt giving my opponent much control over me. It's too loose and too stretchy to really offer much leverage. I think you're also more likely to rip the shirt or stretch it out than you are to effectively hurt me with it.

However, I can see some other types of clothing acting much more like a gi. Someone in trousers and a blazer is probably much closer to what we're used to (including having a belt).

There's a lot in between those to, and a lot tangential as well.

Is the gi grip more realistic than we might believe? Have you used gi grips in a non-gi setting?

It depends where you live.

In Beaverland...aka Canada where theres 20 feet of snow and people walk around in 20lb coats year round its very practical.
If you live in Mexico and live life in a speedo not so much.