Comparing kid ranks to adult ranks

[skribs]

There is tons and tons of content out there about the differences between white, blue, purple, brown, and black belts. This goes for Q&A on martial arts forums or sites like Quora and Reddit, as well as youtube videos discussing these topics. There's very little content out there talking about the differences between kids belts, and almost none comparing kids belts to adult belts.

Every once in a while, one of the older kids (12-13) will stay for the adult class. I had the opportunity to roll with one of them this week, and I vastly overestimated the intensity I would need to bring in order to match up with a gray belt. During the roll, my professor told me to slow down, and I did. I should also note, the kid wasn't in any danger. I was using deliberate movements and I wasn't using my full strength or weight. But I also wasn't holding back my strength and I was keeping up the pace with my attacks. My school is fairly new, so the highest kids we have right now are gray belts. Hopefully in a few years we'll have some yellow and orange belts as well.

I have a pretty good idea what to expect when I get matched up with an adult of various rank. Someone close to blue (high white to low blue) is going to beat me because they're focused on beating me. Someone higher than that (high blue and above) is going to be bored beating me with muscle memory. The other lower white belts are going to be a good challenge for me. The guy who's 6'5" tall or the guy who's a 300-pound piece of solid muscle is just going to crush me in top position. I can get a pretty good sense what I'm in for when I see their rank.

But I don't have that calibrated for what to expect from kids. If I get matched up with a gray belt, or later on a yellow or orange belt, what should I expect from them? What level of intensity should I go at? At what point in a roll do you evaluate your intensity and decide whether you need to dial it back to be a good training partner?

 

[drop bear]

Unless you want to win that roll. You are more trying to explore the position than be competitive.

So your intensity should reflect that.

For kids you are trying to move with them as much as possible rather than shut them down.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Gray Belt ?

https://www.fitness.marines.mil/Portals/211/Docs/Gray%20Belt.pdf

I get Gray Belt is under Black, and more than some other colors.

It would Depend.
Is the kids curriculum different than adults?
Do they have it broken down so that a kids Black is an Adult Blue?

With out the legend for the map, the key for the graph, or the details for the context it would mean almost nothing to comment as one does not have enough data.

Now what I can comment on is:
1a) Always protect yourself
1b) Always protect your partner
1c) Always listen to your coach
2) See rule # 1
3) Understand that sometimes to protect oneself one may have to disagree with the coach or the partner and it might mean leaving ( for good).
4) Understand with life and everything it really does depend upon that situation at that moment and the details that have led up to it including all your life experiences . Understand that #1 might change from time to time depending upon the situation and conditions.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There is tons and tons of content out there about the differences between white, blue, purple, brown, and black belts. This goes for Q&A on martial arts forums or sites like Quora and Reddit, as well as youtube videos discussing these topics. There's very little content out there talking about the differences between kids belts, and almost none comparing kids belts to adult belts.

Every once in a while, one of the older kids (12-13) will stay for the adult class. I had the opportunity to roll with one of them this week, and I vastly overestimated the intensity I would need to bring in order to match up with a gray belt. During the roll, my professor told me to slow down, and I did. I should also note, the kid wasn't in any danger. I was using deliberate movements and I wasn't using my full strength or weight. But I also wasn't holding back my strength and I was keeping up the pace with my attacks. My school is fairly new, so the highest kids we have right now are gray belts. Hopefully in a few years we'll have some yellow and orange belts as well.

I have a pretty good idea what to expect when I get matched up with an adult of various rank. Someone close to blue (high white to low blue) is going to beat me because they're focused on beating me. Someone higher than that (high blue and above) is going to be bored beating me with muscle memory. The other lower white belts are going to be a good challenge for me. The guy who's 6'5" tall or the guy who's a 300-pound piece of solid muscle is just going to crush me in top position. I can get a pretty good sense what I'm in for when I see their rank.

But I don't have that calibrated for what to expect from kids. If I get matched up with a gray belt, or later on a yellow or orange belt, what should I expect from them? What level of intensity should I go at? At what point in a roll do you evaluate your intensity and decide whether you need to dial it back to be a good training partner?

Just work the te hniques you aren't hood at. Work on getting into the right positions to start the technique then release and start again don't win. See how many ways you can get to the necessary position. When you are better than someone then work on the dtuff that you have difficulty with. The most important thing is to not .are it about winning.

 

[skribs]

Gray Belt ?

https://www.fitness.marines.mil/Portals/211/Docs/Gray%20Belt.pdf

I get Gray Belt is under Black, and more than some other colors.

It would Depend.
Is the kids curriculum different than adults?
Do they have it broken down so that a kids Black is an Adult Blue?

With out the legend for the map, the key for the graph, or the details for the context it would mean almost nothing to comment as one does not have enough data.

Now what I can comment on is:
1a) Always protect yourself
1b) Always protect your partner
1c) Always listen to your coach
2) See rule # 1
3) Understand that sometimes to protect oneself one may have to disagree with the coach or the partner and it might mean leaving ( for good).
4) Understand with life and everything it really does depend upon that situation at that moment and the details that have led up to it including all your life experiences . Understand that #1 might change from time to time depending upon the situation and conditions.

We're talking about BJJ gray belts, which are the first belts kids get after white belt.

 

[skribs]

Unless you want to win that roll. You are more trying to explore the position than be competitive.

So your intensity should reflect that.

For kids you are trying to move with them as much as possible rather than shut them down.

Just work the te hniques you aren't hood at. Work on getting into the right positions to start the technique then release and start again don't win. See how many ways you can get to the necessary position. When you are better than someone then work on the dtuff that you have difficulty with. The most important thing is to not .are it about winning.

The question I'm asking is what should I expect a gray belt older kid/teenager to be capable of, when compared to my white belt self? And, down the road, what should I expect out of higher belts like yellow, orange, and green?

From there, the follow-up is how I'm supposed to roll based on those expectations, and how to adjust. But first, I want to know what I should expect, so I know going in what level to try and set my intensity at.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The question I'm asking is what should I expect a gray belt older kid/teenager to be capable of, when compared to my white belt self

Don't expect anything just feel it out as you train. On the fly analysis. You put too much focus on the color of a belt. Just focus on your abilities. Work your techniques get better.

 

[drop bear]

The question I'm asking is what should I expect a gray belt older kid/teenager to be capable of, when compared to my white belt self? And, down the road, what should I expect out of higher belts like yellow, orange, and green?

From there, the follow-up is how I'm supposed to roll based on those expectations, and how to adjust. But first, I want to know what I should expect, so I know going in what level to try and set my intensity at.

You may not think I answered that question. But I really did.

 

[skribs]

You may not think I answered that question. But I really did.

You may think you answered that question. But if you did, it was way too subtle, and your message did not get across.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The question I'm asking is what should I expect a gray belt older kid/teenager to be capable of, when compared to my white belt self? And, down the road, what should I expect out of higher belts like yellow, orange, and green?

From there, the follow-up is how I'm supposed to roll based on those expectations, and how to adjust. But first, I want to know what I should expect, so I know going in what level to try and set my intensity at.

Remember when hat we said about dealing with someone much stronger and/or heavier? That’s you in this situation. Let that thought guide what and how much you bring to the roll. Even if they are similar skill to you, they likely won’t match you yet.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You may think you answered that question. But if you did, it was way too subtle, and your message did not get across.

He did answer it. Each of us will read the answer with our own filters of experience and bias. Look for clarification, rather than challenging that he didn’t answer.

I think I understood his point. I could be wrong. But your background should be good enough to get there, perhaps with some follow-up questions.

 

[skribs]

Remember when hat we said about dealing with someone much stronger and/or heavier? That’s you in this situation. Let that thought guide what and how much you bring to the roll. Even if they are similar skill to you, they likely won’t match you yet.

I get that. But I also know that experience can make up for that. (One of the big points in that thread is we are roughly equal experience). The white belts that are 250+ and the blue and purple belts that are around 175-200 seem to be more decently matched.

I went into that roll assuming that this student's additional experience would at least somewhat compensate for the difference in size.

I think I understood his point. I could be wrong. But your background should be good enough to get there, perhaps with some follow-up questions.

My last 2 posts in this thread were follow-up questions. I'm confused. Are you criticizing me for asking follow-up or for not?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I get that. But I also know that experience can make up for that. (One of the big points in that thread is we are roughly equal experience). The white belts that are 250+ and the blue and purple belts that are around 175-200 seem to be more decently matched.

I went into that roll assuming that this student's additional experience would at least somewhat compensate for the difference in size.

In my experience, there’s a bigger disparity with kids and adults than between adults.

My last 2 posts in this thread were follow-up questions. I'm confused. Are you criticizing me for asking follow-up or for not?

I was suggesting, not criticizing.

The post I replied to did not have a follow-up question - just a challenge that he didn’t answer your question. That doesn’t incline most folks to help further.

 

[Rich Parsons]

We're talking about BJJ gray belts, which are the first belts kids get after white belt.

It wasn't clear from the post .
I guess you made some assumptions and now are going around and disagreeing with all my posts.
Are you harassing me?

 

[drop bear]

You may think you answered that question. But if you did, it was way too subtle, and your message did not get across.

The kids belt rank is not going to be an indicator of anything in this instance.

As for intensity. Do go around crippling kids. So probably less intensity than you would with an adult. And less intensity than with someone you know.

Then the worst that happens is you might get subbed for going too easy.

Which is a non issue.

 

[skribs]

The kids belt rank is not going to be an indicator of anything in this instance.

Why not? Can you elaborate on this?

As for intensity. Do go around crippling kids. So probably less intensity than you would with an adult. And less intensity than with someone you know.

Even at the intensity I got chided over, the kid wasn't going to get hurt, let alone crippled. My concern in this thread is more about being a good training partner than about not hurting anyone. I've got that part under control.

 

[drop bear]

Why not? Can you elaborate on this?

Even at the intensity I got chided over, the kid wasn't going to get hurt, let alone crippled. My concern in this thread is more about being a good training partner than about not hurting anyone. I've got that part under control.

Because you are an adult and have grown up muscles. And it will take a pretty phenomenal kid to match that.

I think you are rolling for the wrong outcome. You don't have to be dangerous to be a bad roll. You can just be boring and try to shut down everything the other guy does. Which is white belt 101.

 

[skribs]

Because you are an adult and have grown up muscles. And it will take a pretty phenomenal kid to match that.

I was under the impression that superior technique should be able to at least close the gap.

I think you are rolling for the wrong outcome. You don't have to be dangerous to be a bad roll. You can just be boring and try to shut down everything the other guy does. Which is white belt 101.

I stated this in the OP that I wasn't being the best rolling partner. My response about not being dangerous was in response to your post about not crippling kids.

"Don't hurt people and be a good training partner" is good advice, but I've already understood that. I'm trying to learn how to do that better. Just telling me what I already know isn't going to tell me how to do that better.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I was under the impression that superior technique should be able to at least close the gap.

For a 12 year old to match a fully grown man, especially one with years of martial arts experience, the kid would need remarkable technique - and no, a grey belt should not lead you to expect that level of expertise. It typically takes a kid about 6 months to reach their grey belt. That's about how long it takes an adult white belt to earn their first stripe on average.

I vastly overestimated the intensity I would need to bring in order to match up with a gray belt.

What level of intensity should I go at?

Aim for pretty much no intensity at all. You're an adult rolling with a child and it's a learning experience not a tournament. Just relax and try to move as technically as you can and use as little of your size and strength and athleticism as you can. If you happen to end up in a match with a wunderkind who has the skills to give you problems despite your size advantage, then take them as an inspiration. Imitate the way they move through positions rather than increasing the intensity in order to "win" the match.

If I get matched up with a gray belt, or later on a yellow or orange belt, what should I expect from them?

Expect that they might have the skills of a white belt with a stripe or two or three, but that they are still kids.

At what point in a roll do you evaluate your intensity and decide whether you need to dial it back to be a good training partner?

Continuously, throughout the entire sparring session.

 

[Rich Parsons]

oh dear ..i thought this was a friendly forum

Hi Don-Lee,

I actually quoted skribs about an action he was complaining about another user.
So I was calling him out for hypocrisy .

I mirrored his attitude back to him .

I hope this remains a friendly site
Please have a nice day.