How do you train chi sau?

[geezer]

simplification really is the key point. As much respect as i have for lt's and kk's knowledge and ability, i think so much of what they developed was about creating a need so that it could be filled.
The original simplicity of the sections were enough, i think, to get people moving in the right direction.

By always having more and more for them to learn, people become hooked on the "wing tsun drug", as i've heard lt put it, and keep coming back for a fix.

Yes!!!

 

[BPWT]

The original simplicity of the sections were enough, I think, to get people moving in the right direction. By always having more and more for them to learn, people become hooked on the "Wing Tsun drug", as I've heard LT put it, and keep coming back for a fix.

In the Leung Ting system there has always been an antidote to this Wing Tsun Drug, always been a way to see through the over-complication that sometimes develops. His name is Cheng Chuen Fun. [h=3][/h]

 

[KPM]

Simplification really is the key point. As much respect as I have for LT's and KK's knowledge and ability, I think so much of what they developed was about creating a need so that it could be filled.
The original simplicity of the sections were enough, I think, to get people moving in the right direction.

By always having more and more for them to learn, people become hooked on the "Wing Tsun drug", as I've heard LT put it, and keep coming back for a fix.

Coming from a version of Wing Chun where simplification is one of the primary points of the whole thing....I can appreciate your comment. ;-) If you've been following what I've been saying about Chi Sau on various recent threads, this is the idea behind how we approach Chi Sau. The more complicated it gets, the less realistic and less applicable it can get.

 

[yak sao]

In the Leung Ting system there has always been an antidote to this Wing Tsun Drug, always been a way to see through the over-complication that sometimes develops. His name is Cheng Chuen Fun.

I have never had the honor of meeting him. He comes across as such a hard *** in all the books but seeing what few videos they have of him on youtube and talking with people who have met him, they say he is one of the most genuinely nice people you will ever meet.
Have you had the opportunity to train with him?

 

[yak sao]

Coming from a version of Wing Chun where simplification is one of the primary points of the whole thing....I can appreciate your comment. ;-) If you've been following what I've been saying about Chi Sau on various recent threads, this is the idea behind how we approach Chi Sau. The more complicated it gets, the less realistic and less applicable it can get.

And that's what gripes me about the whole Wing Tsun juggernaut. They have taken something so simple and elegant and piled so much on top of it that it has become cumbersome and almost clumsy.
I know LT says that the goal of the sections is to ultimately forget them and move on, but I see too many people being trapped in them instead of being freed by them.....but then you could probably say that about wing chun/wing tsun as a whole.

 

[BPWT]

Have you had the opportunity to train with him?

Met, but there was no time for training, sadly. But soon, I hope Interesting, most of the names in Hong Kong from the LT line learned from LT but attended classes run by Cheng Chuen Fun. (so the likes of Carson Lau, Kwok Wah Leung, Chris Collins, Tam Yiu Ming, etc)

I know LT says that the goal of the sections is to ultimately forget them and move on...

Yes, just a starting point. :highfive:

...but I see too many people being trapped in them instead of being freed by them.

The problem is that being 'trapped in them' offers a nice comfort zone. Stepping outside of them and testing if you can actually use what is in the sections (the principles and methods), especially for some instructors, takes them out of that comfort zone.

Which is ironic, seeing as that's where you actually learn.

 

[geezer]

BPWT, you mentioned some great WTers. If I ever win the lottery, I'd love to train with Cheng Sifu, as well as Carson Lau and Chris Collins. Interestingly, they have all left LT's organization. In fact a couple of years back when Carson went out on his own, I got a call from one of my old si-dais in San Antonio asking if I wanted to join up with him in Carson's new organization. I explained that as much as I would like the opportunity to train with Carson, I am quite content with the guy I train under now.

What's too bad is that it seems like you always have to join up exclusively with one group or another. Heck, if I could afford it, I'd like to get input from all of these guys. And Sifu Maday too. -- even though he is one scary SOB!

 

[BPWT]

BPWT, you mentioned some great WTers. If I ever win the lottery, I'd love to train with Cheng Sifu, as well as Carson Lau and Chris Collins.

If you win the lottery, remember that sharing is caring . So don't forget your forum friends.

You know, I'm pretty sure that Carson Lau would come visit your group to give a seminar. He came to Hungary to give a seminar to an independent group (a group that left the HWTO). And I know for sure that Chris has visited the US (returned home) and given seminars. I can't recommend Chris enough... I attend his seminars and train with people from his organisation. It kinda opened my eyes.

Interestingly, they have all left LT's organization.

Yes, it seems (to me) that in the end, people often decide to go their own way - look to have more control over their direction. More interesting, I think, is that while we often hear about 'rebels' and people being bad-mouthed when they leave the IWTA, I know that Cheng Chuen Fun, Kwok Wah Leung, Chris Collins and Tam Yiu Ming don't have bad relationships with Leung Ting. Indeed, Cheng Chuen Fun visits Leung Ting on special calendar days - I think he said something along the lines of "we're like an old married couple."

And Tam Yiu Ming visits LT every time he goes back to HK (a few times a year, I think).

And Sifu Maday too. -- even though he is one scary SOB!

For me, within the IWTA in Europe, Maday Norbert is probably the best out there in terms of sheer kick-****-ary. He is intense - and scary. Though the later is not always a good thing, IMO. There are many things I like about the HWTO... but... my training needs are better met via the Hong Kong-based guys, I think. That said, I meet with HWTO guys regularly to practise 'off the books'.