Help me choose a self defense walking cane

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
21,075
Reaction score
5,945
That's a big question, how do you choose the sticks? What is the difference between a 6oz vs 10oz vs 13oz stick? Can the 6oz do as much damage?(assume they are all very stiff and don't bend)

What do you mean by "the biggest problem you have with the cold steel stick is not killingsomeone"

If you belt someone in the head they may die. Which is generally really inconvenient.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,505
Location
Manchester UK
That's a big question, how do you choose the sticks? What is the difference between a 6oz vs 10oz vs 13oz stick? Can the 6oz do as much damage?(assume they are all very stiff and don't bend)

What do you mean by "the biggest problem you have with the cold steel stick is not killingsomeone"
I mean if you wack someone on the head with that your going to break their skull

will a 6 oz cause as much damage? only if you move it a lot faster
 
OP
A

Alan0354

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
787
Reaction score
236
If you read any of my post and look at the picture, I said it very clearly I removed the heavy aluminum knob that the video used to hit the water melon. My Cold Steel is a strong stick, but it's just a very hard stick like hard wood, nothing more now.

It is too inconvenient also the aluminum knob cannot hang onto the table or chair. It is an expensive cane, it looks too flashy for my taste. I like the stick part of it, so I made the handle for the cane so it looks inconspicuous and can hang onto table or chair.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,505
Location
Manchester UK
If you read any of my post and look at the picture, I said it very clearly I removed the heavy aluminum knob that the video used to hit the water melon. My Cold Steel is a strong stick, but it's just a very hard stick like hard wood, nothing more now.

It is too inconvenient also the aluminum knob cannot hang onto the table or chair. It is an expensive cane, it looks too flashy for my taste. I like the stick part of it, so I made the handle for the cane so it looks inconspicuous and can hang onto table or chair.
the knob isnt really the issue, its a 12 oz club, iit will knock someone out and over possibly causes damage to the skull, it may kill them it may not, but it will most definitely hurt them

the energy at the point of impact is dependent on the mass of the stick and its speed, the faster you swing it the more damage it will do, heavier sticks can be a lot harder to move quickly, requiring more back swing and giving a lot more warning of your intent

there are no other easy answers to this, if you want a heavier stick, get a heavier stick, no matter, what its usefulness to you is dependent on you being able to move it at speed and hit the guy with it, if you cant do one or both of these you may as well be using a bread roll
 
Last edited:
OP
A

Alan0354

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
787
Reaction score
236
the knob isnt really the issue, its a 12 oz club, iit will knock someone out and over possibly causes damage to the skull, it may kill them it may not, but it will most definitely hurt them

the energy at the point of impact is dependent on the mass of the stick and its speed, the faster you swing it the more damage it will do, heavier sticks can be a lot harder to move quickly, requiring more back swing and giving a lot more warning of your intent

there are no other easy answers to this, if you want a heavier stick, get a heavier stick, no matter, what its usefulness to you is dependent on you being able to move it at speed and hit the guy with it, if you cant do one or both of these you may as well be using a bread roll
Now I am confused, I suspect all the hardwood cane of 1 diameter or bigger are going to be 12oz or over. Are you saying they are just as dangerous as my City cane? Even my rattan canes are 12oz. So which is it? Why people keep talking about using hardwood canes?

I dont think I have a problem swinging 12oz, making the whooping sound.

So we are back to the weight again. If you said 12oz is dangerous, then what weight cane is the best..back to the beginning of the thread again.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,505
Location
Manchester UK
Now I am confused, I suspect all the hardwood cane of 1 diameter or bigger are going to be 12oz or over. Are you saying they are just as dangerous as my City cane? Even my rattan canes are 12oz. So which is it? Why people keep talking about using hardwood canes?

I dont think I have a problem swinging 12oz, making the whooping sound.

So we are back to the weight again. If you said 12oz is dangerous, then what weight cane is the best..back to the beginning of the thread again.
of course its dangerous, isnt that why your hitting them ?

hardwood probably wont break on impact, but then a decent soft wood probably wont either, fiberglass almost certainly wont.

as i said your completely over analysing this, youve got three sticks go and practice hitting a bag and see which feels best
 

Blindside

Grandmaster
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
5,115
Reaction score
785
Location
Kennewick, WA
Here is a inexpensive hickory cane, hickory is a great wood for hitting and hurting people with.

Also look at the page where those are sourced from for other options.

As for what you asked for the typical 7/8" diameter, 28 inch long rattan stick is around 8 ounces.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,505
Location
Manchester UK
Here is a inexpensive hickory cane, hickory is a great wood for hitting and hurting people with.

Also look at the page where those are sourced from for other options.

As for what you asked for the typical 7/8" diameter, 28 inch long rattan stick is around 8 ounces.
wouldn't mind one of them myself
 
OP
A

Alan0354

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
787
Reaction score
236
of course its dangerous, isnt that why your hitting them ?

hardwood probably wont break on impact, but then a decent soft wood probably wont either, fiberglass almost certainly wont.

as i said your completely over analysing this, youve got three sticks go and practice hitting a bag and see which feels best
Then why are you singling out the City stick? Like I said, without the heavy aluminum knob, it's just another 12oz hardwood stick, no better or worst when comes to hitting. The main difference the City stick is NOT going to break like hardwood.

Also, like I said, my rattan sticks are 12oz also, big diameter and won't bend like the thinner skinless sticks, they are dangerous too?

I am taking two days off, the skin of both my hands hurt because I practice too much. I have blister on my index finger of my left hand, I better let it rest. I practice both left and right hand and also both hands like Japanese Katana.
 

wab25

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
993
Reaction score
802
Then why are you singling out the City stick? Like I said, without the heavy aluminum knob, it's just another 12oz hardwood stick, no better or worst when comes to hitting. The main difference the City stick is NOT going to break like hardwood.

Also, like I said, my rattan sticks are 12oz also, big diameter and won't bend like the thinner skinless sticks, they are dangerous too?

I am taking two days off, the skin of both my hands hurt because I practice too much. I have blister on my index finger of my left hand, I better let it rest. I practice both left and right hand and also both hands like Japanese Katana.
In my opinion, you are way over thinking this. Get a heavy bag and hit it with the sticks you want to compare, and pick the one that feels best to you. All of the sticks will cause a lot of hurt and injury to the guy you hit. All of them have the potential to kill, if you hit the right targets, in the right direction, with enough force. All of them will send the other guy to the hospital. What is most important, is how it feels to you.

If you are swinging these like a katana... you are very likely to severely injure the guy you hit, no matter which of these options you go with. If there is any video, from a bystanders cell phone, a ring type camera or store surveillance camera... it will be quite apparent that you are carrying the cane as a weapon and not for your mobility. It would be best to know your local laws regarding use of force, use of deadly force, use of and carrying of weapons and self defense. It could very well turn you into the guilty party, very quickly.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,505
Location
Manchester UK
Then why are you singling out the City stick? Like I said, without the heavy aluminum knob, it's just another 12oz hardwood stick, no better or worst when comes to hitting. The main difference the City stick is NOT going to break like hardwood.

Also, like I said, my rattan sticks are 12oz also, big diameter and won't bend like the thinner skinless sticks, they are dangerous too?

I am taking two days off, the skin of both my hands hurt because I practice too much. I have blister on my index finger of my left hand, I better let it rest. I practice both left and right hand and also both hands like Japanese Katana.
get some white opera gloves to go with you cane

give up mate ive told you the same thing three or 4 times now, kinetic energy equals 1/2mass times velocity squared

get your calculator out and work it out for yourself
 
OP
A

Alan0354

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
787
Reaction score
236
get some white opera gloves to go with you cane

give up mate ive told you the same thing three or 4 times now, kinetic energy equals 1/2mass times velocity squared

get your calculator out and work it out for yourself
You seem to be all over the place, that's why I kept asking you what you said.
 

Argus

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
723
Reaction score
260
Location
In my head!
If it were me personally, I'd take a straight grained piece of hickory and taper it slightly to the bottom/point end using a hand plane.
If you have traditional woodworking skills (can sharpen, set, and use a plane) then this is not difficult. Otherwise, I'd just commission a good hand tool wood worker to do the job for me. Tell them what you expect in terms of durability. An experienced woodworker should be able to orient the grain such that it will not break on you, at least not without really, really trying. By contrast, a random mass produced wooden cane is likely to have weak points where the grain runs off or something.

What length are you looking at though? A standard walking cane would probably be better used not as a stick in FMA, but more as a bo or jo, ala something like Muso Shinto Ryu Jojutsu. I'd be more apt to use it in two hands, and perhaps place more emphasis on thrusts than is typical in most FMA systems. While one certainly doesn't want to be limited to thrusts, they allow you to deliver quite a bit more force to a smaller area, and are unlikely to damage even a poor quality cane.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
21,075
Reaction score
5,945
By the way irish stick fighting seems like the most fun.

 
OP
A

Alan0354

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
787
Reaction score
236
I cannot find any class that is open, so I mainly learning from Youtube. I watch quite a bit of stick fighting, Katana and sword fighting, I can see there are a lot of similarity, they are more similar than different when you look deeper into it. I particularly impressed by the real fight video like this one:

I don't know whether I am right or not, but since I watch this and some other real sparing videos, I stop practicing all the fancy twirling and anything that is for show and concentrating on simple swinging and foot work. Look at the video, nothing fancy, the most impressive thing I see is the foot work. When comes to sticks, it's very simple, just one or two simple strikes. Not much blocking at all. I read about blocking and parrying is really not very useful as it's only good for practicing in the class, in real life, it's so fast and so unpredictable that you just don't have time to block and parrying. Using footwork to get away is more realistic. I watch different footworks, so far, I like the footwork of MMA, I don't like the traditional footwork from the formal martial arts, they are just too rigid, nothing like boxing and MMA.

My problem is I am slow, nothing edgile like the young people. It's amazing how far they can leap forward in the attack. I don't know how to speed up my movement.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,704
Reaction score
5,658
Location
Pueblo West, CO
I cannot find any class that is open, so I mainly learning from Youtube. I watch quite a bit of stick fighting, Katana and sword fighting, I can see there are a lot of similarity, they are more similar than different when you look deeper into it. I particularly impressed by the real fight video like this one:
Actually, no. This is a fine example of why YouTube is not a particularly good learning tool. Because the deeper you look into it, the LESS similar sticks and swords are.
At the most basic level, a katana is used with a slashing or slicing movement. A stick uses a hacking motion. If you're swinging a katana like a baseball bat, you're doing it completely wrong.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
787
Reaction score
236
Actually, no. This is a fine example of why YouTube is not a particularly good learning tool. Because the deeper you look into it, the LESS similar sticks and swords are.
At the most basic level, a katana is used with a slashing or slicing movement. A stick uses a hacking motion. If you're swinging a katana like a baseball bat, you're doing it completely wrong.
I did not say swinging the katana like a base ball bat, they are use a round motion. Of cause swinging a sword and a stick is different, I am more talking about they are use round motion to go from one strike to another like figure 8 or whatever you call. There is no school open, so I just use what I learn in martial arts to apply to sticks.

After I watch UFC MMA beating all the difference martial arts styles, I am getting very skeptical about any particular style. I personally learn Tae Kwong Do for almost 3 years, luckily my school at the time was strongly influenced by Bruce Lee, combining a lot of boxing into the class. We never use the traditional horse stands of Tae Kwon Do. Sadly, it evolved again since UFC came onto the scene and I was too old to get into it.

I am watching Youtube to learn what NOT to do than to do. Like I found the video I posted in #56 very eye opening, that confirm what my believe. The real fighting is much more simple than what people spend so much time in all the fancy stuffs, That to me is the essence of MMA, that everything is to the point, very practical, doing it in the most simple way. Forget the style, take the best of every style and use it.

I just watch a lot of youtube of different stick, sword and see what make sense.
 

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
6,216
Reaction score
5,062
Location
Lexington, KY
Actually, no. This is a fine example of why YouTube is not a particularly good learning tool. Because the deeper you look into it, the LESS similar sticks and swords are.
At the most basic level, a katana is used with a slashing or slicing movement. A stick uses a hacking motion. If you're swinging a katana like a baseball bat, you're doing it completely wrong.
A stick isn't the best analogue for a katana, but there are a number of stick fighting systems based around sword technique and sword systems which have traditionally used sticks as training tools for the sword. For example, much of Irish stickfighting was apparently based on broadsword technique, English singlestick was commonly used as a training tool for saber use, and much (not all) of the stick work in FMA is meant to serve as a stand-in for bladework.

Of course, even in those cases, there are some important differences in function between the stick and blade which are worth noting and learning about. But the fact is that a number of people who actually fought with sticks and swords found there was enough common ground between the two to use one as a basis for training the other.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
18,704
Reaction score
5,658
Location
Pueblo West, CO
A stick isn't the best analogue for a katana, but there are a number of stick fighting systems based around sword technique and sword systems which have traditionally used sticks as training tools for the sword. For example, much of Irish stickfighting was apparently based on broadsword technique, English singlestick was commonly used as a training tool for saber use, and much (not all) of the stick work in FMA is meant to serve as a stand-in for bladework.

Of course, even in those cases, there are some important differences in function between the stick and blade which are worth noting and learning about. But the fact is that a number of people who actually fought with sticks and swords found there was enough common ground between the two to use one as a basis for training the other.
All of what you're describing is using a stick as a training tool. And sure, that works. But if you're using a boken or shinai to train, you're still using it (or should be) in the way you'd use a sword.
An impact weapon is most effectively used when the impact puts the energy INTO the target. Kind of like punching or kicking.
An edged weapon, most especially a short or curved blade, is most effective when used to slice the target.
Chopping is for sticks and axes. Slicing is for swords.

Actually, allow me to self correct. Slicing is most effective when you're swinging a blade. The actual BESTEST most effective use is to thrust.
Someone can come in with a bunch of slices, and it's common to stitch them up and wave goodbye. But a single good puncture wound, and there's a really good chance they're going to the OR.
There are reasons dueling was outlawed when weapons became less cut and more poke...
 
Top