Help me choose a self defense walking cane

Tony Dismukes

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All of what you're describing is using a stick as a training tool. And sure, that works. But if you're using a boken or shinai to train, you're still using it (or should be) in the way you'd use a sword.
An impact weapon is most effectively used when the impact puts the energy INTO the target. Kind of like punching or kicking.
An edged weapon, most especially a short or curved blade, is most effective when used to slice the target.
Chopping is for sticks and axes. Slicing is for swords.

Actually, allow me to self correct. Slicing is most effective when you're swinging a blade. The actual BESTEST most effective use is to thrust.
Someone can come in with a bunch of slices, and it's common to stitch them up and wave goodbye. But a single good puncture wound, and there's a really good chance they're going to the OR.
There are reasons dueling was outlawed when weapons became less cut and more poke...
It depends a lot on the type of sword. Some are optimized for slicing and the arts which use them reflect that. Others are more optimized for a hewing action and the body dynamics for those are very close to those for impact weapons (except that edge alignment is much more important, obviously). I’m studying German longsword right now, and hewing strikes are the standard. Slices are more situational exception.
 
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Alan0354

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A stick isn't the best analogue for a katana, but there are a number of stick fighting systems based around sword technique and sword systems which have traditionally used sticks as training tools for the sword. For example, much of Irish stickfighting was apparently based on broadsword technique, English singlestick was commonly used as a training tool for saber use, and much (not all) of the stick work in FMA is meant to serve as a stand-in for bladework.

Of course, even in those cases, there are some important differences in function between the stick and blade which are worth noting and learning about. But the fact is that a number of people who actually fought with sticks and swords found there was enough common ground between the two to use one as a basis for training the other.
Actually if you swing the stick with two hands, technique of Katana might be useful. Who is to say you cannot swing the stick with two hands? Just because most of the popular stick fighting use one hand doesn't mean it's not right to do it!! I learn in life you need to have an open mind to everything.

I spend equal time practice stick with right hand, left hand and both hands. So far, I max out with a 12oz cane using one hand. But if I use both hands, I can swing a 18oz heavy cane just as fast with both hands. What's wrong with that? I hate to keep going to MMA, UFC MMA proved the short coming of confining to any one style, that people need to have an open mind and examine objectively what works and what not.

I am by no means an expert in this, but the idea works in every other field in life. Things never stop evolving.
 

Dirty Dog

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It depends a lot on the type of sword. Some are optimized for slicing and the arts which use them reflect that. Others are more optimized for a hewing action and the body dynamics for those are very close to those for impact weapons (except that edge alignment is much more important, obviously). I’m studying German longsword right now, and hewing strikes are the standard. Slices are more situational exception.
My reply was specifically to a post about the katana...
 

Dirty Dog

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Yeah, I acknowledge that a katana is more of a slicer. I don’t know if the OP understands swords enough to make the distinction between different type.
He's still posting about using a katana and a stick the same... so I sort of doubt it.

And even a longsword is more deadly when used for poking instead of chopping...
 
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Alan0354

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Of cause I understand blade is different from a stick. You don't do cut and slice with a stick. Of cause NOT everything in Katana can be used for stick, but the chopping part is useful for stick. It is NOT ALL or NOTHING, you pick out the part that is related to the stick and let the slicing part goes.

You pick and choose what is useful and forgo those that doesn't apply. This is dynamic, not all or nothing.
 

drop bear

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He's still posting about using a katana and a stick the same... so I sort of doubt it.

And even a longsword is more deadly when used for poking instead of chopping...

Yeah but if you are using a stick like a sword like a stick it cancels itself out.

So if he is doing a kendo move like he is swinging a baseball bat. Then for the sake of cane defence he probably isn't going that far wrong.
 

Dirty Dog

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Yeah but if you are using a stick like a sword like a stick it cancels itself out.

So if he is doing a kendo move like he is swinging a baseball bat. Then for the sake of cane defence he probably isn't going that far wrong.
So if you're wrong enough for long enough you can circle back around to being right?

If he's doing what you're saying, he isn't doing a kendo move. He just THINKS he is, because he doesn't realize he's doing it wrong.
 

drop bear

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So if you're wrong enough for long enough you can circle back around to being right?

If he's doing what you're saying, he isn't doing a kendo move. He just THINKS he is, because he doesn't realize he's doing it wrong.

Yeah I thought that was kind of a weird coincidence.

So not proper kendo and instead just smashing an overhand shot in to someone's head.Which honestly should do the trick.
 

Dirty Dog

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Yeah I thought that was kind of a weird coincidence.

So not proper kendo and instead just smashing an overhand shot in to someone's head.Which honestly should do the trick.
Sure it should. Stick fighting can be super effective. My only points were
1 - YouTube is a lousy teacher.
2 - Sticks are not swords and are not really used the same way.
 

drop bear

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Sure it should. Stick fighting can be super effective. My only points were
1 - YouTube is a lousy teacher.
2 - Sticks are not swords and are not really used the same way.

Yeah but it is weapons. There are almost no good teachers. Because almost nobody gets in to stick fights.

So I wouldn't know if just swinging a sword like a stick is the same or different. Because I haven't swung a sword at someone.

I have never met someone who has.

Even the HEMA guys are basically using sticks.
 

drop bear

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Otherwise competition cutting seems to be a bit baseball bat ish.

 

Dirty Dog

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Yeah but it is weapons. There are almost no good teachers. Because almost nobody gets in to stick fights.
Errrmmm.... while less common than empty hand, I've treated quite a few people after they got whacked with various forms of sticks.
So I wouldn't know if just swinging a sword like a stick is the same or different. Because I haven't swung a sword at someone.

I have never met someone who has.
Yes, but there is test cutting, which is sufficient for learning that chopping with a sword won't work terribly well.
 

drop bear

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Errrmmm.... while less common than empty hand, I've treated quite a few people after they got whacked with various forms of sticks.

Yes, but there is test cutting, which is sufficient for learning that chopping with a sword won't work terribly well.
 

angelariz

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Hi

I am new here and I am new in learning self defense with walking cane. I have question on what cane to choose. I started out buying a cheap wood crook cane from Amazon, I tried hitting on heavy kicking bag and I broke it in like a minute, it just crack in the middle!! So I went to rattan cane, the first I got is 7/8” diameter, it’s very light and flex a lot, It’s only about 6oz and is skinless. I don’t trust it, so I hunted for a thicker ones. I finally bought 3 rattan sticks that are like 1.05” to 1.1” diameter that are with skin and knots un-sanded. I cut them down to 30”, 31” and 32” for practicing. They are still quite heavy, all about 12oz. each. They are quite stiff, I can lean on it with my weight and it only flex very slightly. I thought this is definitely good enough for self defense……..

BUT, then I started reading more. I read that rattan is only good for using in the class where it is safer as it won’t hurt as much if accidentally hitting the partner!!! This is NOT what I want, I want it for self defense. They suggested using for hard wood sticks. My first problem is I don’t trust wood canes from my experience of cracking when hitting the heavy bag.

Also, they said hardwood cane is heavier. My question is how heavy are those 28” hard wood escrima sticks? I want to compare the weight with my canes. If I calculate my rattan canes(12oz.) down to a 28” escrima stick, it’s going to be like 9oz. They are definitely heavier than the few escrima sticks I have ( 6oz to 7oz). What is a typical weight of hard wood stick that is 28” long?

Bottom line, I want to know whether what I have are good enough for self defense, or do I have to go buy a hardwood walking cane.

Thanks

Alan
I use a blackthorn walking stick and the synthetic ones from Cold Steel are fantastic.
 
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Alan0354

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Sure it should. Stick fighting can be super effective. My only points were
1 - YouTube is a lousy teacher.
2 - Sticks are not swords and are not really used the same way.
I never said sword and stick are the same and using stick the same way. You choose the movement of sword and katana that can be transfer to stick moves, like the katana chops, that absolutely can be used in stick. Of cause nobody is that stupid to use slice and cut movement of katana with sticks.

Point is USE COMMON SENSE, pick out what works and what doesn't. You CANNOT stuck with one particular style, you just have to have an open mind to look at different styles and pick out what can be useful.

I disagree that youtube is not useful. I might be newer in sticks, I did spent a few years in Tae Kwon do and a little while in Wing Chung. Again, I watch youtube, look at what make sense and what doesn't. Look at MMA eat all the tradition styles for breakfast because they only pick what is practical and incorporate into the style. Their footwork is amazing, you sure as hell those footwork can be used for stick fight!!! This is 21st century, look at Gracie came into the UFC and ate all the kung fu and karate up, then in a few short years, Gracie got slaughtered by Matt Huges, then within a few months, Huges got creamed. This is modern time, things evolve in lighting speed. I so wish they have USC ( Ultimate Stick Champion), then we'll see what works and what needs to be retired.

You watch all different style with open mind, you can laugh off some stupid things on youtube, but on and off, you'll find something useful. If you spend 2hr watching youtube and you get one good move out of it, it's a win!!! Nobody tells you to take them seriously. Just have an open mind, watch and learn if it is good.

I know I'll be attacked from all sides, so be it. Don't think I am happy with MMA, I spent years in Tae Kwon Do, now MMA eat Tae Kwon Do for lunch. I just consider me practicing Tae Kwon Do and kick boxing now as aerobics. Bitter and sad, but it's life. I got left behind and too old to learn MMA.
 
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Alan0354

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I am still watching some youtube videos to compare light weight sword(stick) vs heavier ones. It is obvious that the heavier, the slower the strike and motion. My question is when is slow is too slow? Also when is light and fast is too light to have stopping power. Here are a few videos I watched:

1) This is a stick fight that the sticks are very light. My guess from the size of the stick assuming they are rattan, must not be over 7oz. Look at how fast are the motion:

2) This is heavier sword fight, it's obviously much slower than the stick fight. You can see one sword is much heavier than the other and is a lot slower. Also, you can see the heavy sword kept pulling the person because of the momentum, even the lighter sword is not exactly light, it's still kind of slow:

3)This is an axe fight, one much heavier than the other. You can see the difference in speed. The light axe is not fast, just faster than the big axe.:

This is the dilemma, how do I choose the weight of the stick? So far, I keep going to the large diameter rattan cane with skin because at 12oz, it's light enough to be faster and the momentum won 't pull me. I have the United Cutlery walking cane that is synthetic and weight 17oz after cut to the same length. I can feel my swing gets slower and recovery is slower. I have to use two hands ( like katana or double hand sword) to swing to get back the speed.

I even have the United Cutlery Walkabout stick that is 26oz, I have to use two hands and still kind of slow because of the momentum.WALKABOUT STICK

This is the 3 canes that I have: 1) is the thick rattan(12oz). 2) Cold Steel City Stick modified(13oz). Weight is ok, it's a lot thinner than the rattan and much harder. This starts to be my prefer one to use as the stopping power is better. My concern is because of the thin diameter, I have to use a foam grip as shown, it attract attention and it's not a good thing. 3) United Cutlery Walking Cane(17oz). Too heavy to swing fast with one hand, but it's good for two hands. I prefer to fight with one hand because this is self defense, I rather use the other hand to hold a pepper spray which I carry with me all the time!!
My 3 sticks.jpg


How do I choose between them? When is slow becomes too slow? You can see in the videos, the big heavy weapon one is not necessary winning, it's just too slow.
 
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geezer

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How do I choose between them? When is slow becomes too slow? You can see in the videos, the big heavy weapon one is not necessary winning, it's just too slow.
Quickness and agility is more important when engaged in weapons sparring where you must move in, score and evade a counterstrike. For self defense, I'd personally sacrifice a little speed and agility for solid, knock-'em-down power. You don't want to smack somebody with a stick and do nothing other than really tick them off. Been there, done that, and it really sucked.
 
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Alan0354

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Thanks Geezer, makes sense. For self defense, you don't count points, only thing that count is the other guy drops. There got to be a reason people choose heavy sword/axe/stick even if it's slower.

For now, I think my best move is practice more double hands swing with the United Cutlery Walking Cane. it's 17oz, should be plenty heavy enough.

Thanks
 
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