Beginner in self defense using cane want suggestions

geezer

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...the first strike from cane resting position pointing on the ground is about the most important move to surprise the attacker. I just don't know how to hit hard.
Yeah, generating power while bringing the cane vertically upward from resting with the tip on the ground can be tough. Here are two other options.

1. If you have space (i.e. your opponent is not right in your face) grip the shaft of your cane (using a normal grip with your thumb and forefinger pointing downward toward the tip), step diagonally forward and to the right with your right leg, and bring the cane up circling the tip behind you, up and over into a hard downward or diagonal slash (your "caveman" strike).

The backward to forward circling motion or "redondo" should be small and quick setting up a powerful downward blow as you step into the movement.

2. If your opponent rushes in and closes as you initiate your redondo to "caveman" strike as described above, shorten your movement and as you circle your arm overhead bring the punyo (butt or handle) of the cane down in a hammer-fist to your attacker's nose or the side of his head.

This is just a shortened version of the previously described strike. Practice stepping and dropping your body weight into both strikes.

3. If your opponent is already very close momentarily extend your left palm towards your attacker and step back with your right leg, creating space and "blading" or angling your body to the right. As you step back, slide your right hand down on the cane and grip it about 10 inches down the shaft. Pop the tip up horizontally and grab it with your left hand. Your hands should be palm-downward and evenly spaced on the shaft of the cane. Now you are ready to drive the tip into your opponent using your body-weight like a battering ram.
Hit once or twice hard, then step back and swing with the full length of the cane at his knees. And then ...run away!!!!

...I also practice two hand poking like the video by Geezer in post #17. My question is whether it has the same stopping power as swinging the stick.
Stopping power? Heck yeah! ...Try this in front of you bag or target:

Stand as described in #3 above, with your left leg forward, and body angled to the right. Hold your cane horizontally, and pointing toward the bag. Grasp it firmly with your hands palm downward, evenly spaced, approximately shoulder width apart, leaving about 8 inches of the tip-end of the cane protruding.

Now move the cane back and forth horizontally, swinging it like a battering ram into the bag. Let your body sway with the movement, and your body weight do the work. You should be able to generate a lot of force.

Next, try the same movement on the high line with the cane held up in front of your shoulders (like you had just done a "pull-up" on a bar). Try different angles, ....angling down, up, etc.

Last, work going from low-line to high ling and back ...that is hitting low, then high, then low again,play with your footwork, add forward and lateral movement, step back to long swings, etc. Make this part of your shadow boxing routine! :)
 
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Alan0354

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I happened across this thread, and I think you already have tons of great advice here, much of it I'd have given myself as a disabled cane user.

I occasionally use twirls as warmups and to keep joints limber, but I don't personally like it at all for any kind of defense as you could drop it or it could get taken away relatively easily, etc etc. I mostly practice with those basic strikes (up and down) that have been mentioned previously.

There are some pretty nice videos here. Most cane stuff I find is for abled and strong people who just happen to want to use the cane but could just as easily toss it no problem. It is difficult, but not impossible, to find people who produce instruction for people who train with a cane who.... need a cane. I get why that is, and I am happy the cane is sort of experiencing a surge in popularity (or so it seems, but this could be my confirmation bias due to my own interests and searches) but I think a lot of that is that the cane is innocuous, and people are looking for this sort of "take anywhere" force multiplier. I enjoy training with a cane, but sometimes I can't help but wonder how I'd feel about it if I was a person who didn't actually need a cane just to move about daily. I don't think I'd do it. But I'm biased a bit by my need for a cane, and I barely remember what it was like to not need one since aged 16.

Training with a cane on your own is hard (IMHO) because it can be difficult to prepare for situations where you might use it or someone else might grab it. I applaud you for taking this initiative and I hope you find it rewarding.
Cane is definitely getting popular lately, try look for a rattan cane. For a while, they were all sold out. With the political climate now, criminals are emboldened, riot, burning and looting all over the place. Particular I am an Asian, Older Asians are being attacked all over the place. That's the ONLY reason I even think of a cane.

I did extensive research in what cane to buy, you can even read my other thread here: Help me choose a self defense walking cane

I am one of those that don't need a cane but carry a cane all the time when I go out. I am surprised when I told my friends ( in the late 50s and 60s), they all frown on the idea because a cane make them look old and weak. I have no issue with that, Hey, if it keep me safe, you can laugh all you want. I still do a lot of exercise, practicing kick boxing type at home and weight lifting. Including cane, I put in 6 to 7 hours a week in exercising. I take a cane over a knife any time of the day. I have guns, but I don't want to carry it all over the place. On top of the cane, I carry pepper spray in my left pocket so I use cane with right hand and pepper spray with left hand. This is something you should consider also. Pepper spray can be effective.

It might be too personal to ask what happened that you need to use a cane, but one thing I would say, do weight training on the upper body, strength make everything better. Half of my workout is weight training. yes, without sparring, it's hard to be very good. I did Tae Kwon Do before and did sparring, I hope I can draw on that experience. But I sure don't practice any fancy moves, blocking, hooking and all that. You need sparring to practice, it's useless to practice on my own, just waste of time. I concentrate on footwork and simple striking.
 
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Alan0354

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First, let's make sure you're starting from the correct position for the upwards backhand diagonal strike. This is not the same as starting with the stick on the ground - that's a much trickier position to generate power from.

After you've completed your initial right-handed caveman strike, your right hand should be in the general vicinity of your left hip - perhaps a little higher depending on your proportions. You may have your right wrist cupped against your left palm. The tip of the stick should be pointing upwards and slightly backwards. Your hips should be rotated to the left and your front foot should be pivoted to the left, as if you had just thrown a lead hook. Your body should feel somewhat like a coiled spring - lots of potential energy ready to be released. To use that energy, drive off your left leg to uncoil your body and pivot your hips (and your front foot) back to the front. It should feel somewhat like throwing a rear cross or reverse punch as a follow up to a hook. In fact, you can even use your left hand in a palm strike motion to help throw your stick arm along its way. Don't aim for the surface of your target - you're swinging the stick all the way back up to your starting position cocked on your right shoulder.

Give that a try and if you're still having problems then post another video and we can try to troubleshoot any issues.
Thanks Tony

My biggest issue is swinging the stick up from right to left, that is the stick in right hand pointing to ground, swing up diagonally to the left.......BUT, I think I really need to practice for a week before I say anything more. Swinging up is always harder, so I never really practice them. I mainly swing diagonally down from left or right, swing horizontally from left and right to the knee. that's the 4 basic swings I practice.

Question is what is up swing for? what part of the body I am supposed to hit?

Lastly but very important question: Do I practice to swing hard to build up strength and power? What is the best exercise to increase striking power? So far, my exercise is twirling the stick in figure 8 none stop for like 5 minutes with each hand. The forearm really starts to burn after a while. I am hopping to get more swinging power. I know use feet, hip, shoulder to combine to get power(just like punching), but I find my weakest link is still the forearm and the wrist.

Thanks
 
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Alan0354

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Yeah, generating power while bringing the cane vertically upward from resting with the tip on the ground can be tough. Here are two other options.

1. If you have space (i.e. your opponent is not right in your face) grip the shaft of your cane (using a normal grip with your thumb and forefinger pointing downward toward the tip), step diagonally forward and to the right with your right leg, and bring the cane up circling the tip behind you, up and over into a hard downward or diagonal slash (your "caveman" strike).

The backward to forward circling motion or "redondo" should be small and quick setting up a powerful downward blow as you step into the movement.

2. If your opponent rushes in and closes as you initiate your redondo to "caveman" strike as described above, shorten your movement and as you circle your arm overhead bring the punyo (butt or handle) of the cane down in a hammer-fist to your attacker's nose or the side of his head.

This is just a shortened version of the previously described strike. Practice stepping and dropping your body weight into both strikes.

3. If your opponent is already very close momentarily extend your left palm towards your attacker and step back with your right leg, creating space and "blading" or angling your body to the right. As you step back, slide your right hand down on the cane and grip it about 10 inches down the shaft. Pop the tip up horizontally and grab it with your left hand. Your hands should be palm-downward and evenly spaced on the shaft of the cane. Now you are ready to drive the tip into your opponent using your body-weight like a battering ram.
Hit once or twice hard, then step back and swing with the full length of the cane at his knees. And then ...run away!!!!


Stopping power? Heck yeah! ...Try this in front of you bag or target:

Stand as described in #3 above, with your left leg forward, and body angled to the right. Hold your cane horizontally, and pointing toward the bag. Grasp it firmly with your hands palm downward, evenly spaced, approximately shoulder width apart, leaving about 8 inches of the tip-end of the cane protruding.

Now move the cane back and forth horizontally, swinging it like a battering ram into the bag. Let your body sway with the movement, and your body weight do the work. You should be able to generate a lot of force.

Next, try the same movement on the high line with the cane held up in front of your shoulders (like you had just done a "pull-up" on a bar). Try different angles, ....angling down, up, etc.

Last, work going from low-line to high ling and back ...that is hitting low, then high, then low again,play with your footwork, add forward and lateral movement, step back to long swings, etc. Make this part of your shadow boxing routine! :)
Thank Geezer

Sorry about the delay reply. A lot of things to try out, it will take me some time before I can comment back. So far, I only try #1. I find when I use right hand holding cane, it's more natural to use left foot to step to the left while raising the cane with right hand to swing from top right down to the lower left. I have been practicing with cane pointing down first, then step while raising the cane and strike down. I practice both hands. this is definitely better than swinging the cane up from pointing to the ground.

I really have to take some time to practice.

Thanks
 

geezer

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Thank Geezer

Sorry about the delay reply. A lot of things to try out, it will take me some time before I can comment back. So far, I only try #1. I find when I use right hand holding cane, it's more natural to use left foot to step to the left while raising the cane with right hand to swing from top right down to the lower left. I have been practicing with cane pointing down first, then step while raising the cane and strike down. I practice both hands. this is definitely better than swinging the cane up from pointing to the ground.

I really have to take some time to practice.

Thanks
Agreed, practice and go with what works for you. But, post back after a while and let us know how it works out!
 
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Alan0354

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Hi

I have been practicing, swinging hard and using legs, waist and shoulder to swing harder, using more the arm instead only the wrist. Everything is going fine.

But I am also thinking, this way of swinging, the stick is travel in a much bigger arc. In real life, you don't have a clear big area to swing without obstruction. This means the big swing might end up hitting other things in the way and it's not practical. I am starting to practice more poking and all that. Any other suggestions?

Thanks
 

Blindside

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Hi

I have been practicing, swinging hard and using legs, waist and shoulder to swing harder, using more the arm instead only the wrist. Everything is going fine.

But I am also thinking, this way of swinging, the stick is travel in a much bigger arc. In real life, you don't have a clear big area to swing without obstruction. This means the big swing might end up hitting other things in the way and it's not practical. I am starting to practice more poking and all that. Any other suggestions?

Thanks
This is a lesson on short staff, but take a peek at the thrusting series at the end, you might find some use in it (start at 7:00).
 
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Alan0354

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Alan, this is for you.
Thanks

The close quarter poking and striking is exactly what I've been practicing in the last two weeks. I straightly using two hands like holding a katana to swing the cane. I can control a lot better with two hand in tighter situation. I don't even have to complete the figure 8 type of swing as I can stop the cane after I strike downward without circling back as I can stop the motion using two hands. This is much more compact for tight space.

Other than holding like a katana, this is exactly like what I've been practicing. I have to do another video after another week or so to smooth out the transition between katana strike to poking and punching holding the cane like in the video. I find I don't have do it one way like katana or poking/punching with the cane, I can go back and fore. Katana to close the distance, then switch. Then when I back off, back to katana swing.

Striking with two hands like katana hits a whole lot harder on the heavy bag than one hand. I can use a heavier cane also.

Thanks, I love the two videos.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Then reverse from lower and swing diagonally up ( like reverse the down cut). The reverse is HARD. The hand is in strange position and is hard to swing hard. Took me a while to get a little smoother.

I have problem with reverse strike, first from left slashing down to the right side, then reverse coming up from left to the right side. This is the same idea from Jobo to hold the stick with right hand with the stick pointing to the ground( just like you walk with it), then swing up from that position. I just cannot generate force. I tried this on the kicking bag, I can't even make a pop coming from lower right swinging up to the left!!! Any pointers for me?

Alan, this is for you.
Alan, check out Lamont's body mechanics on the backhand upward diagonal at around 2:01 in his video. That shows what I was trying to describe in my earlier posts.

Lamont (Blindside) is very good with stick work (certainly better than I am), so definitely pay attention to his instruction.
 
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Alan0354

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Alan, check out Lamont's body mechanics on the backhand upward diagonal at around 2:01 in his video. That shows what I was trying to describe in my earlier posts.

Lamont (Blindside) is very good with stick work (certainly better than I am), so definitely pay attention to his instruction.
Yes, I have been practicing using legs, hip and shoulder in swinging the cane since the video I first posted. In my first video, I don't really put my legs, hip and shoulder in like I do punching and that was not good, no striking power. I since practice with those in.

In your video, he use one hand grip and the second hand just push the wrist of the hand holding the stick. I do katana holding. I also club straighter down for confined space and try to stop the cane from going full circle like in the video because like he said, it only works if you have a lot of space. I am practicing for confined space.....like in the restaurants. Also just as important, it's easier to lose the cane if holding with one hand, you accidentally knock the table or chair when you swing, that can easily dislodge the cane from one hand holding. It's more secure to grip with two hands. Not to mention it hits a lot harder with two hands. You depend on momentum to generate power using only one hand, so you have to swing in a big arc. I don't have to swing a big arc to get the same power compare to using one hand, I don't have to swing in big arc, which is much better in confined space.

I practice a lot of the moves like in the video starting from 2:30, that is more useful in confined space.

I change a lot since the first video in post #1. I just want to practice more before I make a new video.

Thanks
 

Blindside

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Alan, check out Lamont's body mechanics on the backhand upward diagonal at around 2:01 in his video. That shows what I was trying to describe in my earlier posts.

Lamont (Blindside) is very good with stick work (certainly better than I am), so definitely pay attention to his instruction.

I think he is looking for a forehand rising shot suggestion and that is a tough one to generate power on with only a little travel, particularly if he is trying to do it two handed. There was a reason I didn't show it on my video, it is simply hard to do.
 
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Alan0354

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I think he is looking for a forehand rising shot suggestion and that is a tough one to generate power on with only a little travel, particularly if he is trying to do it two handed. There was a reason I didn't show it on my video, it is simply hard to do.
I really not looking for a rising shot anymore. That is cane in pointing down and try to swing up. IT's hard to generate power. I tried on the bag trying to hit the bottom, I dropped my cane as it's in very odd position that I cannot even hold it secure. I since change to just pick up the cane with the right hand, left hand grab the middle of the cane and POKE. That is a lot more effective and fast. The more I practice poking, the more I like it. I keep switching between swinging and poking.

BTW, what bags are you using for hitting with cane? I am really worry about breaking my heavy bags hitting with the cane. You have a special type of bags you buy? I only dare to practice once a week on the bags, that's not enough. You can see my pictures I have to wrap the canes with rubber foam before hitting the bags, those foam do wear out, it's not exactly cheap either. Those are bicycle handle foam tubes, like $10 to buy two tubes. They only last like two weeks and start tearing. Then I have to wrap it over with electrical tapes, that wear out too!!!

Thanks
 

Blindside

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BTW, what bags are you using for hitting with cane? I am really worry about breaking my heavy bags hitting with the cane. You have a special type of bags you buy? I only dare to practice once a week on the bags, that's not enough. You can see my pictures I have to wrap the canes with rubber foam before hitting the bags, those foam do wear out, it's not exactly cheap either. Those are bicycle handle foam tubes, like $10 to buy two tubes. They only last like two weeks and start tearing. Then I have to wrap it over with electrical tapes, that wear out too!!!
I either hit the BOB or a tire pell, I won't use a punching bag. Something that might work for you is something like this portable pell:
 
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Alan0354

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I either hit the BOB or a tire pell, I won't use a punching bag. Something that might work for you is something like this portable pell:
When I look at this, I wish I have not given away the Slam Man and the one advertised by Chuck Norris long time ago. Those you put water in the base as weight. Never thought I have to learn stick fight for self defense. I might be able to get back the Chuck Norris one as I gave it to my stepson 10 years ago and he never use it. Too bad I don't have room in the garage as I already have two heavy bag hanging there. Ha ha, unlike most people, we do park both cars in the garage. There's just no more room for another thing. It's going to be loud hitting with the cane outside in the back yard.

Those Slam Man stuffs are useless for punching and kicking, I can tip it over by just a few punch.( I know about not pushing the punch, it's all about speed and penetration, but if you punch a few punches in a roll hard enough, it will tip over) unless I put sand in it. So I gave them away. Never thought I can use it.

My guess is striking with a stick doesn't generate the power of punching. Even when I hit the bag really hard, the bag barely swing and it doesn't penetrate into the bag at all. Unlike punching, I can penetrate the heavy bag over an inch easily. It's just a different power from punching and kicking. This might make the Slam Man type perfect for cane strikes.

What do you think?
 

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Hi

I have been practicing, swinging hard and using legs, waist and shoulder to swing harder, using more the arm instead only the wrist. Everything is going fine.

But I am also thinking, this way of swinging, the stick is travel in a much bigger arc. In real life, you don't have a clear big area to swing without obstruction. This means the big swing might end up hitting other things in the way and it's not practical. I am starting to practice more poking and all that. Any other suggestions?

Thanks
Something for you to think about: in the Chinese long fist methods, big movement is used as a training method that helps you understand full body connection. This is what can enable you to get tremendous power by engaging the full body in delivery of your techniques. It harnesses a coordinated delivery from the feet, up the legs, into the torso and shoulders, and down the arms to the hands. If you can do this, then a punch, for example, can be much much more powerful than if you are only relying on the strength of the arm and shoulder.

However, it is not meant to necessarily be used with that big movement. The big movement is meant as a methodology to help you understand the biomechanics of that movement. When you understand it and develop that particular skill, you can then get similar power with smaller movement, because you understand the full-body engagement and you can still do that even with smaller movement.

This can translate into use of the stick. While the training may use the big movement, application can be done with much smaller movement.

This is a saying in Chinese martial arts: move big to become small.
 
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Alan0354

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This might be useful, watch their mechanics.
I am practicing close to this using two hands. I am just doing it more simple, just 4 moves, 1)chop down from right to left. 2)chopping down from left to right 3)swing at the leg from right to left. 4) swing at leg from left to right.

I am more concentrating on putting legs, hip waste and shoulder into it to hit harder. I use a narrower footwork, not as wide a step. I feel in self defense environment, I don't have the kind of space to move around. Also, I try to chop in a more compact way, not a full circle swing like in the video.....again, to avoid hitting things in the surrounding in real life situation like hitting tables and chairs in the restaurant.

I even practice some that I stop the cane right after I hit from high to low to totally avoid circling back. With two hands swinging like this, it is doable to stop at the bottom before hitting the ground and bring it up to strike again.

I watch some of the Irish stick fight that have moves that uses two hands to poke and to hit the opponent with both ends of the stick using two hands. I am just cycling between poking and swinging like katana back and fore. I feel in real life self defense, I should not limit to either swinging like in the video OR two hand poking etc.

I want to practice a few more days before I make another video for people to give me more input, mainly I want to smooth out the transition between katana swing and two hand poking.

Thanks so much, this has been very educational. I am still practice single hand with either right or left hand like twice a week to keep that going, but my effort really concentrates on both hands as it's faster and hit harder. also, swing with two hand enable me to use a stronger and 17.5oz cane instead of a 11oz rattan cane.
 
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