Grappling is a Waste of time

[jarrod]

Lori.
Is this a scenario in which someone is accosting you or harrassing you. Is it a situation where you feel threatened?
Based on the info you gave, you stated the "hand on the shoulder" with elbows locked. Obvioulsy they are larger and stronger.
I am an advocate of always assuming a neutral position with palms forward and fingers below the chin. This does incorporate the natural fighting stance but without "posturing". The legs remain in the natural fighting stance while the arms and hands display neutrality.

I am going to subtract the escape factor and just get to the meat.

I would take the path of least resistance and by feining neutral and utilizing peripherals you should know where that is.
You can rotate outside and project through or you can rotate inside and project through. The nearest target is the groin. If you rotate inside and take the groin you can get under thier base and dump them by pulling out the leg from behind the knee cap with the hand thats not clutching the crotch. You would be simultaneously lifting up on the groin to take thier weight off thier feet while clutching the leg and pulling it into your hips. he falls on his back and head and it took no real strength to put him there...just gravity and physics and reaction to spinal reflex.
If you rotate outside the target is the same but you will end up behind them after the rotation and projection through them so dumping them will be a bit different but the concept remains the same.

Keeping your base is paramount and taking thiers away is equally important. Your base should consist of your inseam length. Mine is 32" so there is a 32" space between my feet in every movement while I am standing.
Rotation, of course is a circular motion wether is 20 degrees or 360 degrees. Rotation is paramount
Projection is putting yourself through them by replacing your body with where they were.

It may not make sense but its the best I can do without visual reference.

or you can just lock the bad guy's arm & break it if necessary. but you know, whatever's easiest.

jf

 

[teekin]

Jarrod, I bet you've taught this how many times?
Both times this is Outside the schools. I often walk before and after class to loosen up my legs and knees as they have sustained bad injuries. There are bars near both schools. I get hit on, a lot. Most guys will take a polite "thanks but I am not interested" and be on their way. If however there is a pack and maybe one is a bit looped well **** seems to go downhill. The drunk one will decide to be a ******** and come after me as I continue to walk away. He will reach for me from behind and put his hand on my shoulder. His buddies are watching but only once have they come into play. So I'm being harrassed, yes but not afraid for my life. I don't want to start a fight with a drunk guy, I don't want to hurt him real bad, I just want to convince him to leave me alone.
Please be aware that if this happened IN either of the schools the guy would go head first through a wall after being beaten almost to death by the instructors. Talk about an Absolute Zero Tolerance policy.

 

[jarrod]

i think i've read about it somewhere. or maybe it was on youtube.

jf

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So I'm being harrassed, yes but not afraid for my life. I don't want to start a fight with a drunk guy,

Firstly, you are not starting anything. Once they put their hand on your shoulder, they have legally initiated an attack. Why not call the police and have him locked up? He is outside of the bar and antagonizing people in a public place. A night in the cooler might change his perspective. Press charges and make him pay out in legal fees. Maybe his legal expenses will cut into his drunk money.

Also, complaints to the establishment might not be the worst thing either. If the same guy or group of guys have a habbit of getting out of hand, the establishment may cut them off.

I don't want to hurt him real bad, I just want to convince him to leave me alone.

Why not? Would you feel differently if he was not a drunk?

I often see comments on this board and others about not wanting to hurt the drunk. "You wouldn't want to use lethal force on a drunk at a party if he got violent. You'd want to control him so that he isn't hurt." Excuse me, but the violent drunk has as much consideration for the well being of others as the carjacker pointing a gun at you, and should be treated as the threat that he is.

In this case, the guy is publicly drunken and has crossed a physical line. He deserves no more consideration than a sober assailant.

Less, truth be told: He intentionally and purposefully dulled his senses and slowed his reflexes. Then he initiated a physical confrontation. Because he is drunk, he may continue the attack where a sober person might break it off. Drunks need to be handled with the maximum force as quickly as possible.

If he were on drugs, I guarantee that you would not express sentiments indicating not wanting to hurt him. Unfortunately, alcohol is a drug, so the drunk needs to be treated with the same extreme prejudice as the guy jacked up on PCP.

Lest anyone think that I am antagonistic towards drinking, I am not. I enjoy alcohol and consider it one of life's special pleasures. But violent drunks do not deserve any special consideration.

Daniel

 

[Aiki Lee]

I'd simply threaten to call the police for harassment, and hopefully that would scare him off. Although, I'm usually not approached by drunk guys looking for a date. Must be because of my robust manliness.

Anywho, If a threat of police action doesn't make them go away, then a red flag should go up and you should be prepared to do violence. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Anywho, If a threat of police action doesn't make them go away, then a red flag should go up and you should be prepared to do violence. That's my take on it anyway.

This is why I afford drunks less consideration than sober people; the same guy may back off with threat of police action when sober but blow it off when drunk.

Likewise, the same guy may take no for an answer when sober bur keep pressing the issue when drunk.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

To clear up any misconception I categorize situations in 3 ways.
Or better I afford myself only 3 options.

Escape/evasion= next option when negotiation fails.

NEGOTIOATION= most situations fall under this option.

Ruthless Agression= when its the only option.

Read my post about the man slapping his girlfriend and attempting to steal her purse. I agressively negotiated my terms which led to him walking the other direction. Even though he was physically assaulting her I gave him 1 option only... he took it and then retracted and struck her again. I advanced further and instructed him to walk away or I would "put him down" ... he complied and I made sure he walked away and didnt look back. He deserved a beating but it was not right or just to do so despite his actions... thats integrity. I understand my capabilities so much that I pray that I dont need them...ever.
Pray for peace...prepare for war.

Well, thanks for the clarification. As I said, I did not get the impression that you were for any other options, from some of your prior posts I've read.

 

[BLACK LION]

^^^^
No problem.

I feel that by understanding what it takes to take a life or cause debilitating injury, coupled with the will-intent and physical capability to do so....I am in the position to set the stage all the way up to that point and beyond. I am in control becuase I know I will not compromise. If its negotiation = its my terms... if its evasion= its my terms...agression= my terms...
Not every clash of flesh has to end in life long injury or death but I am in the position to guage that from minimum to maximum and act accordingly.
By intimately understanding the physiological effects associated with areas of weakness I can guage the force and effort I put in. If I am caught in the middle and I have to "subdue" somone or something I know what areas to to pop-press-grab or poke in order to get results without life long injury to the opposition. A simple thumb in the armpit while seizing the trapezuis muscle or fingers tucked behind the clavicle while grabbing some neck meat are just some examples of non-lethal and non-debilitating.... hell a polite squeeze of the esophagus while giving a "wedgie" is very dear to me If I want "compliance" I can get it... if I want to leave or want them to leave I can get that... if I want them completely shut off or non-functional I can get that...


Thanks
Broderick

 

[dnovice]

I'm very late to this discussion. All I have to say is read "The Gracie Way" if you have any doubts about Grappling. One on one its great even if the person is way larger than you.

 

[diamondbar1971]

Different styles, who's is the best, worst, etc. this has always been a topic that has been kicked to death...haven't we all (as martial artists) been taught respect for any and all styles...there are so many variables during any confrontation, skill level being the foremost thought comes to mind.. is there any true martial artist on this site that would not welcome any and all advantages available to be used to protect his or herself..i personally feel that if there is another tool/weapon that i can add to my aresenal then i welcome it with open arms...40 years ago we were taught to take care of the situation in the vertical position...one day this may not be the case..what will i do then..i have many years experience and i, as a lot of old timers, realize that change and or adaption is not a bad thing...parker--woo--tuiolosega, they all knew this, then. there are discusions about why is learning all of the sets, or any sets, etc. its to give everyone options, nothing is the same for everyone. just because something is not liked, or understood does not make it a bad thing.. grappling is not the same as ground and pound, but i for one certainly want to be prepared, how about you.

 

[chinto]

IS this topic still going?? why??

 

[dnovice]

IS this topic still going?? why??

Because you bumped it.

 

[Domino]

Have to agree with Dnovice about "The Gracie Way" ... thats all the proof there is

I think people look at grappling or floor work negatively because in a real situation, if someone*else* can kick your head off, they will.