George Zmmerman trial begins...

[elder999]

considering the whole courtroom laughed at the response...only those determined to ignore what actually came out in the trial and are determined to use imagined racism as an excuse to riot.

Not really.

I can say-as someone who has killed another person in self-defense-that the expectation from many is that one be somber, as serious as a judge-that the mere fact of the act will have wiped all sense of humor from one's very soul, and you will never laugh at anything, ever again-that as an individual, one is reduced to merely being the gravity of that particular circumstance.

People have found that out about me, and never talked to me again. Not let their children anywhere near me. I've had people ask me about it, not really wanting to hear my answer-I've manufactured several "pat" answers for when people do ask about it, so we can avoid the entire can of worms that my answers open up for some people..

He was seen laughing. Some people-non-racists, people who won't riot, cops, all sorts of other people, will see that as inflammatory, and indicative of "not taking his situation seriously enough." I mean, it was funny, but he's not supposed to laugh-possibly ever, and certainly not in court.....

 

[Tames D]

Not really.

I can say-as someone who has killed another person in self-defense-that the expectation from many is that one be somber, as serious as a judge-that the mere fact of the act will have wiped all sense of humor from one's very soul, and you will never laugh at anything, ever again-that as an individual, one is reduced to merely being the gravity of that particular circumstance.

People have found that out about me, and never talked to me again. Not let their children anywhere near me. I've had people ask me about it, not really wanting to hear my answer-I've manufactured several "pat" answers for when people do ask about it, so we can avoid the entire can of worms that my answers open up for some people..

He was seen laughing. Some people-non-racists, people who won't riot, cops, all sorts of other people, will see that as inflammatory, and indicative of "not taking his situation seriously enough." I mean, it was funny, but he's not supposed to laugh-possibly ever, and certainly not in court.....

That's pretty sad. I don't think every human being has the same response as you. I also don't think you can put a stamp on it. Everyone handles things in their own way.

 

[granfire]

That's pretty sad. I don't think every human being has the same response as you. I also don't think you can put a stamp on it. Everyone handles things in their own way.

I don't think it's about the laughing (elder certainly has his style of humor) but the perceptions others have about his situation.
Somewhere between Dear Abby and what TV tells you, I am sure people believe that you should never ever be happy again....

The human psyche is fragile. That's why we have developed many coping mechanisms. Laughter/humor is one of them.

And nothing gets you into hot water quicker than not reacting in a way other people believe you should.

But the riots have been in the planning much earlier than this little (human) chuckle of Z.

 

[elder999]

That's pretty sad. I don't think every human being has the same response as you.

Statistically, damn few do. One of the cops who interviewed me, all those years ago, recognized it-wanted to make certain I was going to be a cop or a soldier.....I wasn't, but it worked out okay, and all these years later, I still appreciate him.....and his pizza....:lol: (best damn pizza I ever had! :lol: )

I also don't think you can put a stamp on it. Everyone handles things in their own way.

Not a question of that, but of other people's perceptions-they think you should be miserable; if you aren't, there's clearly something wrong with you, mostly because they're certain (without ever experiencing it) that that's how they would feel, so that's how you should feel. To display behavior that says you feel otherwise, then, is wrong.....

 

[Tames D]

Statistically, damn few do. One of the cops who interviewed me, all those years ago, recognized it-wanted to make certain I was going to be a cop or a soldier.....I wasn't, but it worked out okay, and all these years later, I still appreciate him.....and his pizza....:lol: (best damn pizza I ever had! :lol: )



Not a question of that, but of other people's perceptions-they think you should be miserable; if you aren't, there's clearly something wrong with you, mostly because they're certain (without ever experiencing it) that that's how they would feel, so that's how you should feel. To display behavior that says you feel otherwise, then, is wrong.....

I knew someone a long time ago that would always laugh at the strangest times. She laughed when I told her my buddy was killed in a car accident. She laughed when her mother died. I thought she was one uncaring mother ****er. I learned from her that those were the times when she was in the most pain. I still don't understand that behavior but I now know that people handle stress and pain in many different ways, despite what the standard practice is thought to be.

 

[elder999]

I knew someone a long time ago that would always laugh at the strangest times. She laughed when I told her my buddy was killed in a car accident. She laughed when her mother died. I thought she was one uncaring mother ****er. I learned from her that those were the times when she was in the most pain. I still don't understand that behavior but I now know that people handle stress and pain in many different ways, despite what the standard practice is thought to be.

You kinda miss the point.....

It's not that my reaction was "inappropriate." Some might characterize it as "no reaction at all."

At the police station, after I got cleaned up-one eye was glued shut with the other guy's dried blood-all I really cared about was that it was 4 a.m., and I was hungry.

I was alive. The other guy was dead, and while I certainly hadn't left home planning on killing a 17 year old kid, I certainly wasn't about to be killed by one., and I was alive, and hungry.

That was, at that point, all I really cared about. I never gave that kid a second thought. In the intervening years, if I've had nightmares about the incident: they're always of me being stabbed, instead of me stabbing him, and I can't remember the last time I had that particular dream at all.....not since my daughter was born in 1986, I think....maybe a little later.

Mostly, I don't care. If I think about it....well, I think I liked it, but that's one of the things I'm not supposed to say. Why wouldn't I like it? He's dead, and I'm alive. I should wish for the alternative?

Or be quiet. It's best to be quiet-and certainly don't laugh at anything (never mind laugh at everything, the way I do....:lfao:....) better to let the world think that I'm heartsick and damaged from what was a really, really good day, rather than let them think for a moment that I think of it as a really, really good day-where I went on breathing, and pizza never tasted finer, and I was never more glad to see my father, or sleep between the clean sheets on my bed.....better to let most people think that I recognize my "pariah" status: I've killed, and nothing will ever taste good again, nothing will ever feel good again, and certainly, nothing will ever be funny again, because, dammit, taking life is serious business, and it's all I'm supposed to think about for the rest of my life.

Get it? Probably not.....that's okay, really. It's a hell of a thing to find out about yourself, at 20 odd years of age, and hard to articulate to anyone else. Pray you never understand, lest you have to come up with "pat" answers yourself.

I deeply regret what happened on the subway platform that morning. That was someone's baby, once..... all in all, I'd really much rather that I'd gone to have breakfast with those chicks from Manhattan, rather than trying to get to the last train home......really....but, all told, I'm really, really, REALLY glad I got to go home-whatever it took.

I should cry for some kid who was gonna cut me down so he could be in a gang? I don't think so. I should lose sleep over it? Not likely.

I should admit that I liked the way it felt when I stabbed him with my pen-that I enjoyed watching whatever was going on behind those eyes go away, even as his blood spurted onto my face? That it was all I could do not to laugh at his pathetic last words, What did you do that for? That there was no stress, nor pain for me to handle?

Well, how does that last bit make you feel, Tames? It doesn't bother me at all, really-I've lived with it for more than 30 years, now, and gotten quite used to it. However you feel, just be glad that I haven't killed anyone else, just to feel like I did that morning.....and no, that's not a joke at all.....

If I'd wound up in court, though, I'd have had the good sense and self-composure not to laugh, because that's what people expect.....

 

[MJS]

Haven't really been following this as close as I was initially, but I do catch clips on the early news in the AM and some articles in the paper. Looks like Martins father is saying the voice that was heard on the tape was not his son. And of course, each side is pointing fingers at the other, to attempt to determine who instigated the confrontation, which in itself is a task, IMO, due to the fact that we have only 1 side.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I've followed it enough to know that I don't have much regard for either the prosecution or the defense. I've heard the recordings of the 911 operator telling him not to go after Martin. He opted not to follow this instruction. Stupidity.

Martin's picture from when he was twelve was all over the media. Very dishonest. Zimmerman was portrayed as white, but he isn't. Dishonest.

I don't know what actually happened, but I do know that I have little trust in the people trying to paint Zimmerman as some kind of hero or Martin as a tween kid of about twelve. By all accounts, an armed man pursued another man, accosted him (either verbally or physically; who knows?) which promted a scuffle that ended when the armed man shot the other man, who so far as I know, was unarmed.

I will cry no tears for Zimmerman if he is found guilty. Nor will I raise cheers for Martin's family. Should he be acquitted, I will not be gnashing my teeth in frustration nor will I be mourning the miscarriage of justice with Martin's family. Both sides seem happy to slant the truth or obscure it all together. So I'm happy to let them fight it out in their own little sand box.

 

[elder999]

Zimmerman was portrayed as white, but he isn't. Dishonest.

How is it that he "isn't white?"

I keep hearing this, Oh, he's Hispanic and yet...oh, here. From the EEOC fact page:

The White category is defined by the White not Hispanic or Latino category, i.e., from the above-presented Race and Ethnicity for Other than Hawaii specifications, this is (1A) White, Not Hispanic or Latino.
The Black or African American category is created by combining the Black or African American not Hispanic or Latino category with the Black or African American and White not Hispanic or Latino category, i.e., combine (2) Black or African American not Hispanic or Latino with (6) Black or African American and White not Hispanic or Latino, from the above-cited specifications.
The Hispanic or Latino category is created by combining all Hispanics, as was done in previous versions of the EEO File, i.e., from the above-mentioned specifications, add (1B)White, Hispanic or Latino to (11) Other Hispanic or Latino.
The American Indian or Alaska Native category is created by combining the American Indian or Alaska Native not Hispanic or Latino category with the American Indian or Alaska Native and White not Hispanic or Latino category, i.e., from above-cited specifications, add (5) American Indian or Alaska Native not Hispanic or Latino to (8) American Indian or Alaska Native and White not Hispanic or Latino.

Or, if you prefer:

Race and Ethnicity for Other than Hawaii (12)

1. White
   1. Not Hispanic or Latino

Hispanic or Latino

1. Black or African American not Hispanic or Latino
2. Asian not Hispanic or Latino
3. Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander not Hispanic or Latino
4. American Indian or Alaska Native not Hispanic or Latino
5. Black or African American and White not Hispanic or Latino
6. Asian and White not Hispanic or Latino
7. American Indian or Alaska Native and White not Hispanic or Latino
8. American Indian or Alaska Native and Black or African American not Hispanic or Latino
9. Balance of individuals reporting more than one race not Hispanic or Latino plus individuals reporting some other race not Hispanic or Latino
10. Other Hispanic or Latino

I'd submit that George Zimmerrman is a 19B0, WHite-hispanic or latino.

"Not white." :lfao:

 

[granfire]

How is it that he "isn't white?"

I keep hearing this, Oh, he's Hispanic and yet...oh, here. From the EEOC fact page:



Or, if you prefer:

[/LIST]


I'd submit that George Zimmerrman is a 19B0, WHite-hispanic or latino.

"Not white." :lfao:

But he's got a white name!!
Zimmermann - can't get any whiter than that!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I know what he looks like. He's not white.

 

[elder999]

I know what he looks like. He's not white.

Oh, and of course this is the ultimate arbiter of racial origin.

"I know what he looks like." :lfao: :lfao: "He's not white." :lfao: :lfao: :lfao:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I'd have said something more in depth, but it isn't worth the effort here.

 

[elder999]

I'd have said something more in depth, but it isn't worth the effort here.

There is.......

nothing......

you can.......

say!

 

[elder999]

And for those who think I'm merely being argumentative for its own sake, I'd point out that race has been at the center of this case from the onset-and there are those who simply say that Zimmerman isn't "white" because he's "hispanic," two things that are not mutually exclusive. As for, "I know what he looks like," well.....he looks kinda Italian to me.....:lfao:

View attachment $th.jpgView attachment $91cf8e0b-8f70-3945-8d7f-d1f6b5cec1f3.jpgView attachment $1334092957-george-zimmerman-mug-shot-660x815.jpg

 

[arnisador]

Italian was my take the first time I saw him, and his side seemed to emphasize Hispanic more as the media spoke more and more of it as a racial matter.

 

[Big Don]

The media and the race baiting a holes are the only ones making race a factor in this.
I am reminded of Chris Rock's bit about the OJ verdict:
"Black people too happy, White people too mad" reverse that and there you go...
The chance of rioting after the verdict (guilty or acquittal) is pretty damn certain, but, morons riot after their teams win in sports. A soccer ref got BEHEADED. Morons will do as they do, and there are an awful lot of you out there.

 

[Tames D]

The media and the race baiting a holes are the only ones making race a factor in this.
I am reminded of Chris Rock's bit about the OJ verdict:
"Black people too happy, White people too mad" reverse that and there you go...
The chance of rioting after the verdict (guilty or acquittal) is pretty damn certain, but, morons riot after their teams win in sports. A soccer ref got BEHEADED. Morons will do as they do, and there are an awful lot of you out there.

No doubt there will be a riot if Zimmerman walks. Why would this be any different from any other trial where a "white person" is aquited and riots ensue. Just got to get the guns out to protect our property. Oh wait, they want to take our guns away. Hopefully there are enough law enforcement officers to protect us. Oh wait, their not obigated to protect us... We're ****ed

 

[billc]

The medical examiner brought in by the defense pretty much ended the prosecutions case today...he explained why Martin's hands weren't swollen, his blood had stopped moving when he died which prevented swelling, and the reason no blood was on Martin's hands...the body wasn't handled properly at the medical examiners office and at the crime scene...they didn't put bags over the hands and they may have washed the body before the autopsy...He also went through the extent of Zimmerman's injuries pointing out that even though there were only two cuts to the head, it doesn't negate the seriousness of the damage that could have been done to Zimmerman. He pointed out that bleeding in the skull is always possible in head trauma and doesn't always show immediately after the head is injured...you should watch his testimony...this guy is the go to guy for police detectives and forensic evidence...

He also said Martin was on top when he was shot, as per the gun shot wound and how it showed on the body...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...tent-with-evidence-as-defense-case-nears-end/

Dr. Vincent Di Maio, Forensic Pathologist

It seemed to take the entire first hour of Dr. Di Maio’s testimony simply to work though his background and credentials. He has spent on the order of 40 years working as a forensic pathologist, having personally conducted some 9,000 autopsies and overseen tens of thousands more. Defense attorney stepped through these qualifications in his usual deliberative manner.
In addition to his work conducting autopsies, Dr. Di Maio had also served in the military in a capacity in which he was able to study terminal ballistics and gun shot wounds. He stepped through the process by which a gun fires a cartridge, focusing particularly on the matter ejected from the muzzle, including the hot expanding gases, the bullet, and unburned gun powder.
Zimmerman’s Muzzle Not Pressed Into Martin’s Body

He noted that the autopsy report noted a 2″ x 2″ area of gun powder tattooing (from unburnt gun powder) around the gun shot wound on Trayvon Martin’s chest. He was able to determine from this that them muzzle of the Mr. Zimmerman’s Kel-Tech PF9 had been between 2″ and 4″ from Mr. Martin’s chest. He was also able to definitely exclude the State’s claim that the muzzle of the gun had been pressed against Martin’s chest, because in that case the unburnt gun powder would have ended up in the wound rather than on Mr. Martin’s skin.
ME Bao’s Collection and Preservation of Evidence Disastrously Flawed

West also had Dr. Di Maio testify as to matters of evidence collection and preservation, particularly the wet clothes that had been stored in plastic bags (thus degrading any DNA that might have otherwise been detectable), the failure to bag Trayvon Martin’s hands in order to properly preserve any evidence there (such as Mr. Zimmerman’s DNA on Martin’s knuckles),

and the fact that the photos taken by Medical Examiner Bao were only taken after Martin’s body had already been washed. This undercuts a variety of State claims, including that the lack of Zimmerman’s DNA on Martin’s hands suggests that Martin did not, in fact beat Zimmerman around the head.

In essence, this line of questioning should have destroyed whatever little remaining confidence the jury might have still held in the testimony of Dr. Bao.

Martin Would Have Been Able to Pull Hands Under Body After Shooting

Dr. Di Maio further testified as to how long Mr. Martin might have been able to have controlled movements considering the injuries caused to his heart by Mr. Zimmerman’s bullet, indicating a minimum period of 10 to 15 seconds. This would have been more than enough time for Martin to pull his hands in under his body. This undercuts the State’s argument that Zimmerman must be lying when he said he moved Martin’s hands away from his body.
Injuries to Zimmerman’s Head Were Potentially Life Threatening

Further testimony from Dr. Di Maio emphasized the life-threatening danger of blows to the head. He noted that intracranial bleeding is hidden, and often does not cause death until some hours after the injury that caused it. He also noted that axonal injury can occur even besides bleeding, causing brain damage. This undermines the State’s arguments that the blows to Zimmermans’ head were inconsequential and could not h ave represented the reasonable threat of death or grave bodily harm necessary to justify Zimmerman’s use of deadly force in self-defense.

The defense also undermined the "Zimmerman is a racist," line of attack...The last witness helped in this regard...

 

[elder999]

The medical examiner brought in by the defense pretty much ended the prosecutions case today...he explained why Martin's hands weren't swollen, his blood had stopped moving when he died which prevented swelling, and the reason no blood was on Martin's hands...the body wasn't handled properly at the medical examiners office and at the crime scene...they didn't put bags over the hands and they may have washed the body before the autopsy...He also went through the extent of Zimmerman's injuries pointing out that even though there were only two cuts to the head, it doesn't negate the seriousness of the damage that could have been done to Zimmerman. He pointed out that bleeding in the skull is always possible in head trauma and doesn't always show immediately after the head is injured...you should watch his testimony...this guy is the go to guy for police detectives and forensic evidence...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10736761
He also said Martin was on top when he was shot, as per the gun shot wound and how it showed on the body...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...tent-with-evidence-as-defense-case-nears-end/

Don't really have a dog in this hunt, but: bruising can occur post-mortem.:

It is not sufficiently emphasized in our country that bruising can also appear post-mortem. We report two cases in which we observed discolorations which looked like ante-mortem bruising

And if bruising can occur post-mortem, that negates his argument.

I mean, there was no swelling or bruising because the kid was used to hitting things, maybe??

And as for "being on top," if someone pulled a gun on me and I responded with empty hands, I might just "be on top" right up until I was shot, too....

It doesn't matter, though-the prosecution never wanted this case, and their handling of it demonstrates as much.....