George Zmmerman trial begins...

[billc]

The onlyy eyewitness to the encounter said the guy dressed in black was on top, punching or moving his arms in a downward motion toward the guy on the bottom, dressed in red. if you go to the post with the site covering the trial you can get the video of the testimony...his last name is good.

Keep in mind Martin was also a fan of mma, and apparently got into fights with friends and others mma style.

Either way, the only witness to see the actual fight puts Maryin on top. Also, Martins knuckles were abraded.

 

[billc]

Also, the eyewitness described what he saw as the guy on top looked like he was doing mma.

 

[Steve]

The onlyy eyewitness to the encounter said the guy dressed in black was on top, punching or moving his arms in a downward motion toward the guy on the bottom, dressed in red. if you go to the post with the site covering the trial you can get the video of the testimony...his last name is good.

Keep in mind Martin was also a fan of mma, and apparently got into fights with friends and others mma style.

Either way, the only witness to see the actual fight puts Maryin on top. Also, Martins knuckles were abraded.

I think that we, more than most, understand the difference between being a fan if mma and training in mma. Zimmerman was training x3 per week.

Also, the question remains, would a lay person be able to tell the difference between the two pictures above? I don't believe so.

Also, Martin's left hand had sine scrapes. His dominant hand did not. And none of Zimmerman blood was on Martin's knuckles.

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[billc]

The medical examiner acknowledged that no pictures of Martins hands were taken, and that no nail clippings were taken either. So there is no way to tell if there was or wasn't blood on Martins hands because the evidence wasn't collected. What the John Good the witness said was that Martin, the guy in black, was on top and was moving his arms downward, and it looked like mma fighting, he didn't say it looked like a trained mma fighter. The important thing is that John Good, the only eyewitness to the encounter said that Martin was on top, Good told the two of them to knock it off, or something to that effect, and that when he went to call 911 the shot rang out. I don't think strict technical terms are important to who was on top hitting who...

Zimmerman was training x3 per week.

As to that, I don't think anyone said how long he had been training, you would have to go back through the testimony. Was he training a month, 6 months or several years...that would be more meaningful to know...and the prosecution didn't bring that out...

The Defense attorney, O'mara, finally helped define the malice and spite aspect of the 2nd degree murder charge. In those cases where that charge was proven, it happened between husband's and wives or between neighbors where there was a history of conflict and evidence of long standing problems where "malice," and "spite," could develop. He cited a case of a mosh pit where a guy fell and bumped a guy in the groin, that guy picked up the bumper, and lifted him in a wrestling style move and slammed him into the ground on the side of his face. The guy got up, walked outside and died. The attorney said that in that case, they did not find "malice," or "spite," in the actions of the guy who tossed the other guy. So by those and many other examples given, there wasn't time for their to be "malice," or "spite," and their was no prior relationship where "malice," or "spite," could have been developed.

 

[billc]

Also, to the best of John Good's ability to remember, it seemed like the guy on the bottom, in the red clothing, was the one calling out for help.

Another thing to keep in mind, was Zimmerman actually training in the mma or just going to class without actually practising at home? Also, how good was he? On top of that, it really doesn't make a difference to his self-defense claim. There isn't a law that states you have to only use empty hand technique in a situation where you think your life is at risk. The Criminal Justice class teacher went through Florida self-defense law on the stand, you don't even have to be injured before you use lethat force.

 

[billc]

Well...Trayvon's mother said it was Trayvon screaming...Zimmerman's mother and uncle said it was Zimmerman. Zimmerman's uncle is a retired Command Seargent Major, 26 years in the army, and is now a Deputy Sherriff in Florida.

At this point we have an eyewitness saying it was George Zimmerman calling for help and both his mother and uncle identifying him on the audio tape. The "white," hispanic label from the media goes out the window since both his mother and uncle are obviously from another country...

 

[Steve]

Most mma training is unsuitable for practice at home. Most of the training done outside the gym is conditioning type stuff.

And the question remains, would a lay person distinguish between mou t and guard? I don't think so, particularly in the dark.

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[Carol]

A (recently retired) police officer that I work with was in the office today. He got pretty steamed up when someone mentioned Zimmerman. Apparantly Zimmerman's own relatives were on the stand testifying how Zimmerman abused them? And he was facing two felony charges of violence against a LEO that were pled down and dropped after he agreed to enter an alcohol program? My colleague's take...Zimmerman is a violent nutter, and painting him as an innocent victim is not only improper, but also makes law-abiding LTC/CCW holders look like hell.

Discuss.

 

[billc]

Have to see an actual source on that. The prosecution brought up one charge with the officer, and the restraining order was from a girlfriend or someone but he had one against her as well and both were eventually dropped. they were brought up at some point during the prosecution. Considering the anal exam Zimmerman has gotten since this case started and the hostile media, you would think anything really damaging would have come out during the prosecution phase.

 

[billc]

Here is a link to the arrest and the restraining order...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

The three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.


In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.


In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.


In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court

 

[billc]

A look at the trial so far...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...ge-zimmerman-case-possibly-go-to-the-jury.php

So the evidence in favor of Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense is powerful. What has the state mustered on the other side? 1) The testimony of a friend of Martin’s who was talking with him on the phone shortly before the fight started. That testimony, if anything, helped Zimmerman; in any event, she did not “witness” anything that bears directly on who started the fight. 2) DNA evidence which proved nothing, one way or the other. 3) Various irrelevancies about Zimmerman’s character and personality. 4) The testimony of Martin’s mother, who said the screams in the 911 tape came from Martin. Apart from the mother’s obvious and overwhelming bias, the foundation for her testimony approaches zero. Has she ever heard Trayvon scream, as though in fear for his life? Presumably rarely, if ever. But in any event, she certainly has never heard Zimmerman scream. For all she knows, the screams on the audio sounded exactly like Zimmerman. I am a little surprised, frankly, that the judge admitted such shaky testimony. 5) The testimony of Martin’s brother to the effect that it was Trayvon screaming on the 911 recording. His testimony suffers from all of the defects of his mother’s. In addition, he admitted that two weeks after the shooting, he said in a television interview that he couldn’t tell whether the screams were Trayvon’s.


How could a jury rationally find that this meagre evidence–contradicted by eyewitness testimony, physical evidence and the fact that the police investigation was fully consistent with Zimmerman’s account–proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense? I don’t think a reasonable jury could so find, and if that is the case, the defense motion should have been granted, and the case should not have been allowed to proceed.

 

[Carol]

Here is a blog post regarding the abuse testimony. Its from policy mic but references USA Today Et. Al.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/1...ut-sex-abuse-allegations-show-he-is-dangerous


So...Zimmerman's own relatives were not on the stand in his case, and were instead testifying a year ago.

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[billc]

Well, If this is the case I hope they charge him and try him for this as well. From what I have found he could still be charged in Virginia, but not in Florida. It would be better if she actually came forward the entire way to make her case, maybe she will do it after this trial. As to this trial...it doesn't change the facts so far, and the poor job the prosecution is doing. With his mother and uncle testifying it is obvious that the defense end of the trial isn't going to go any better for the state than did their shot at the case.

 

[Carol]

Indeed, it doesn't change the facts of the case. Plus TGace mentioned in Steve's thread that the state bringing a "try 'em high" with the Murder 2 charge will make prosecution even more difficult.

I do think my colleague has some valid concerns, the long term effects of this vase may very well prove tobe deleterious to some Castle and CCW rights. And that is not a good thing.

 

[Steve]

As to that, I don't think anyone said how long he had been training, you would have to go back through the testimony. Was he training a month, 6 months or several years...that would be more meaningful to know...and the prosecution didn't bring that out...

This is where I got the information: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2013/6/28/first_week_of_testim.html

According to the article above, he had trained in "MMA" three times per week since at least August 2011, so about 6 or 7 months minimum. I don't know how good of a student he was, or whether he trained at a legitimate gym, but the guys I know who train for 6 months x3 per week know the basics and should be reasonably fit.

 

[granfire]

A (recently retired) police officer that I work with was in the office today. He got pretty steamed up when someone mentioned Zimmerman. Apparantly Zimmerman's own relatives were on the stand testifying how Zimmerman abused them? And he was facing two felony charges of violence against a LEO that were pled down and dropped after he agreed to enter an alcohol program? My colleague's take...Zimmerman is a violent nutter, and painting him as an innocent victim is not only improper, but also makes law-abiding LTC/CCW holders look like hell.

Discuss.

I suppose it's no different than painting Martin as little angel...

 

[billc]

Why the Judge should have granted an acquital on Friday...the article goes into all the case law...

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/0...for-acquittal-should-have-been-granted//#more

Walker, Barwick: Indirect Evidence Must Exclude Every Hypothesis of Innocence

The controlling case law on this issue in Florida is Walker v. State, 957 So.2d 560 (FL Supreme Court 2007), which in turn quotes favorably from Barwick v. State, 660 So.2d 685 (FL Supreme Court 1995). In Barwick, the Florida Supreme Court states:


[A] judgment of acquittal is appropriate if the State fails to present evidence from which the jury can exclude every reasonable hypothesis except that of guilt.

Zimmerman Used Deadly Force in Self-Defense Only In Extremis

But, O’Mara emphasized, he didn’t. Instead he screamed for help for 40 seconds, begging for someone to come to his assistance. Several people peered out their windows and heard noises but saw little. John Good, the only eye-witness, stepped outside onto his porch and observed the darker skinned man in the dark clothing on top of the lighter skinned man in the lighter clothing and demanded that he stop the apparent beating. The man on top in the darker clothes ignored him. John Good returned into his home to dial 911, as several other residents were also doing.

Even then, when any hope of immediate aid was lost, when the blows continued to rain down, when Martin pressed his hands over Zimmerman’s mouth and nose , cutting off his breath, when he feared the imminent loss of consciousness, even then Zimmerman did not yet resort to the use of deadly force in defense of his life.
That decision came only after Zimmerman’s licensed concealed gun, still secure in its holster, emerged from concealment because of the displacement of jacket during the attack, was observed by Trayvon Martin. “You’re going to die, mother ****er,” Martin told him, reaching for the gun.

You cannot look at that picture of my client’s nose and say that he wasn’t beaten in the face. You can’t look at the back of his head and say he wasn’t beaten in the back of the head.

You cannot look at the autopsy of Mr. Martin and not realize that my client never intended to nor landed one blow on Mr. Martin, all my client did was scream out for help.

Mr. Good, though he was questioned a lot about this area, did finally opine, though he didn’t see gasps escaping from my client’s mouth as he was the one scaring towards him, said it was his thought, his common sense, that it was in fact my client screaming out for help.

 

[billc]

Yeah, the prosecution is about to get rolled by the defense...all day the defense has brought in witness after witness testifying that it is Zimmerman yelling for help...especially the last witness before lunch...

John Donnelly, Vietnam Combat Medic


The most powerful of these witnesses was arguable the last one to testify before lunch, John Donnelly. A pleasant older man, Donnelly was introduced to the jurors as a physician’s assistant. It also soon emerged, however that he was a close personal friend of Zimmerman’s, and indeed admired the younger man considerably.
The kicker, though, was when it was disclosed that John Donnelly had served as a combat medic during the Vietnam war. The importance of this historical piece of information was revealed as O’Mara progressed through his direct. Here, for the first time, was someone who could genuinely be said to possess personal expertise in being able to correlate a person’s normal speaking voice and their screams in extremis. And George Donnelly, firmly and without the slightest hesitation, identified George Zimmerman as the screamer.

If this is the way the defense is going to handle an item like who the screamer was, in the face of Martin's mother saying it was Martin...the prosecution is going to have a really rough week...

Apparently, Martin's father couldn't identify the voice...a long week for the prosecution...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/08/Trayvon-father-did-not-know

On Monday, the George Zimmerman defense called Tracy Martin, the father of Trayvon Martin. Tracy Martin testified that he said to police that he couldn’t tell if the screaming voice on the 911 tape was his son. That testimony was in direct conflict with Officers Christopher Serino and Doris Singleton of the Sanford Police Department, who said that Martin said that it was not the voice of his son on that tape. The testimony was also in conflict with the case the prosecution attempted to make that Tracy Martin had said “no” not in response to a question about Trayvon’s voice, but with regard to his disbelief at Trayvon’s death.

 

[billc]

They also called Zimmerman's trainer...I have to assume for now they mean his mma trainer...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/08/Zimmerman-trainer-athletic

He said Zimmerman was sporting black eyes, bandages on his head. According to Pollock, Zimmerman was “physically soft,” and didn’t have a lot of strength, predominantly fat instead of muscle.

More testimony from Zimmerman's mma instructor...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/08/Zimmerman-trainer-not-good

Pollock owned a gym in Seminole County, where he trained both professionals and amateurs. He said that the term “ground and pound” means taking someone to the ground, keeping them on the ground, and then “striking them from on the top downwards.” Pollock demonstrated on defense attorney Mark O’Mara what it means to mount someone who is down to prevent them from fighting back.



Pollock said that Zimmerman came to his gym in order to get in shape. He said they put Zimmerman on a diet and exercise routine. Pollock said they began with grappling based on work and school schedule, and said that Zimmerman trained two to three days per week, with each session being two hours long. Pollock referred to Zimmerman as a “rank beginner.” On a scale of one to ten, the defense asked, how would Zimmerman rank as a grappler? “0.5,” said Pollock. Pollock said he worked at the gym for about a year, and for some of that time, Zimmerman had put his membership on hold. By the end of his training, Pollock said he had moved from a 0.5 to a 1 or a 1.5.

 

[arnisador]

I think the prosecutor going for pathological liar was a mistake. I think they'd be willing to believe he'd lie to keep himself out of jail but not that he's a pathological liar, with all that language entails.