Fun thread - if I were to do my kata in your style, how would it look?

[Ivan]

My art is Taekwondo. Our forms are done as snapshots of technique: rigid stances, distinct chambers, explosive power from one move to another (in most cases). Each technique should be crisp and clear, with no wasted movement. Between each technique or combination there should be a brief pause; a snapshot of the technique that you can demonstrate. Almost like a living picture. Here is an example of one of the forms being done: Taegeuk #5.

I've been watching Youtube videos lately of guitarists who will take a riff, and play that riff in the style of 20 other bands. For example, they will take the main riff for AC/DC's Back-in-Black and keep the melody, but also throw in the style of other bands like Metallica or Korn. This got me thinking...

What about doing a Taekwondo form in 20 different styles?

How do your kata compare to something like this? If I were to adapt a Taekwondo form (not necessarily the one in the video) to your style, what sort of changes would I make to it?

It could be serious changes, or it could just be changes that have fun with it. What do you got?

In Karate, I believe the stances would be much wider and exaggerated. You could make an exception for Shito-Ryu as it tends to have more narrow stances than the other substyles, but I believe that even those stances would be far wider than those in taekwondo.
I experience this problem in my TKD class when I do my forms, as I am more accustomed to the exaggeration of footwork and stance width in karate.

In Shorinji Kenpo, the stances would be about the same, but everything would be a more fluid motion as the style was mainly derived from Kung Fu and attempts to imitate the fluidity and rocking motion of willow trees. There likely (though I could be wrong) wouldn't be the snapping kiai at the end of each movement, and would rely heavily on defelction rather than blocking.

 

[Martial D]

My art is Taekwondo. Our forms are done as snapshots of technique: rigid stances, distinct chambers, explosive power from one move to another (in most cases). Each technique should be crisp and clear, with no wasted movement. Between each technique or combination there should be a brief pause; a snapshot of the technique that you can demonstrate. Almost like a living picture. Here is an example of one of the forms being done: Taegeuk #5.

I've been watching Youtube videos lately of guitarists who will take a riff, and play that riff in the style of 20 other bands. For example, they will take the main riff for AC/DC's Back-in-Black and keep the melody, but also throw in the style of other bands like Metallica or Korn. This got me thinking...

What about doing a Taekwondo form in 20 different styles?

How do your kata compare to something like this? If I were to adapt a Taekwondo form (not necessarily the one in the video) to your style, what sort of changes would I make to it?

It could be serious changes, or it could just be changes that have fun with it. What do you got?

In 'my style' the kata would be thrown out, and instead any useful moves from it would be drilled on pads and then with a resisting partner.

 

[skribs]

In Karate, I believe the stances would be much wider and exaggerated. You could make an exception for Shito-Ryu as it tends to have more narrow stances than the other substyles, but I believe that even those stances would be far wider than those in taekwondo.
I experience this problem in my TKD class when I do my forms, as I am more accustomed to the exaggeration of footwork and stance width in karate.

In Shorinji Kenpo, the stances would be about the same, but everything would be a more fluid motion as the style was mainly derived from Kung Fu and attempts to imitate the fluidity and rocking motion of willow trees. There likely (though I could be wrong) wouldn't be the snapping kiai at the end of each movement, and would rely heavily on defelction rather than blocking.

If you find a school that does Palgwe forms, you might get deeper stances.

That's why my Master has preferred the Palgwe forms for our curriculum, and only just recently introduced the Taegeuks.

 

[skribs]

In 'my style' the kata would be thrown out, and instead any useful moves from it would be drilled on pads and then with a resisting partner.

That's how I feel sometimes. But I've also seen the effect that forms have on a student's attention to detail, which is a valuable skill to have.

 

[Martial D]

That's how I feel sometimes. But I've also seen the effect that forms have on a student's attention to detail, which is a valuable skill to have.

True, but the same can be had from drills.

Maybe moreso.

In a form or kata you are doing a variety of moves in a certain sequence, so you are doing any given move once or twice within that timespan.

With drills you are doing one of those moves a lot of times in a row. For me the latter way helps more to refine a technique.

 

[skribs]

True, but the same can be had from drills.

Maybe moreso.

In a form or kata you are doing a variety of moves in a certain sequence, so you are doing any given move once or twice within that timespan.

With drills you are doing one of those moves a lot of times in a row. For me the latter way helps more to refine a technique.

This is why the forms have more focus on attention to detail. Drilling a technique means attention to the same details. Training a form means attention to hundreds or thousands of details.

 

[Martial D]

This is why the forms have more focus on attention to detail. Drilling a technique means attention to the same details. Training a form means attention to hundreds or thousands of details.

Ya. Exactly the problem. Doing it that way means a long time before you're any good at any one of the hundreds of things within a given form or kata, even after you memorize it.

The other problem I see is the sequence..you barely ever throw from a set guard position, but rather off the back of the move before. This makes for a very different setup.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ya. Exactly the problem. Doing it that way means a long time before you're any good at any one of the hundreds of things within a given form or kata, even after you memorize it.

The other problem I see is the sequence..you barely ever throw from a set guard position, but rather off the back of the move before. This makes for a very different setup.

To me, part of the point of forms is the development they can engender that goes beyond fight training. This ability to develop this advanced attention to detail goes beyond just developing the details for the techniques in question. The fact that it takes many repetitions to get good at the form is an important part of the process. Personally, I can learn a single technique to the first level of competence (being able to do it reasonably well on a moving person, who isn't really trying to stop me) considerably faster than I can memorize a form.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Training a form means attention to hundreds or thousands of details.

The form only record one way of doing thing. For example, a form can be a sentence such as:

"This is a book."

When you learn this form, you only learn

- this and not that.
- is an not isn't.
- a and not many.
- book and not pencil.

IMO, to learn the grammar (principle, strategy, ...) is much more important than just to learn the sentence (technique). If you have learne the grammar, you can create your own sentence.

MA grammar can be:

- Kick low, punch high.
- Attack one leg 1st. attack the other leg afterward.
- Use circular attack to set up straight line attack.
- Disable your opponent's arms when you move in.
- ...

 

[dvcochran]

If you find a school that does Palgwe forms, you might get deeper stances.

That's why my Master has preferred the Palgwe forms for our curriculum, and only just recently introduced the Taegeuks.

A good point about Palgwe stances being longer but the stances should not be too much wider, like @Ivan referred to. That is a very clear Okinawan reference to me no matter what style. Our GM has a strong Kung Fu background as well. One thing we really work on is not having wasted effort between moves like Ivan mentioned. The moves should flow. Something that is very different in the Taeguek forms.
I hope the new forms are adopted. I have not heard a definite name for them but have seen a few videos and they do appear to flow better.

 

[Azulx]

If you had a video of you doing one of you forms I would do it in our style , and we could compare them .

 

[_Simon_]

A worthy form to transpose! This happened in the tournament circuit I enter, but was up in Queensland. Perhaps one of @drop bear 's proteges?

 

[pdg]

For us, they’re really no different than other athletes doing “hip swings” during warmup. For some reason, we call them kicks, but there’s no combative application.

There is an application to a downward kick (axe kick) if you're quick with it...

Use it to drag your opponent's guard down, and while the leg is going down and your weight is moving forward go in with a punch or three.

Up until they realise that's what's coming it works great - after that point there's a chance they'll just catch and lift, which ends less well

 

[Flying Crane]

There is an application to a downward kick (axe kick) if you're quick with it...

Use it to drag your opponent's guard down, and while the leg is going down and your weight is moving forward go in with a punch or three.

Up until they realise that's what's coming it works great - after that point there's a chance they'll just catch and lift, which ends less well

There is another application for a downward axe kick: drop it on top of your opponent’s nose. My instructor did that to me when I was a teenager. Lucky it didn’t break my nose or my teeth.

 

[pdg]

There is another application for a downward axe kick: drop it on top of your opponent’s nose. My instructor did that to me when I was a teenager. Lucky it didn’t break my nose or my teeth.

That's pretty much the 'official' application, but it's much harder to pull off reliably.

That said, a really good move is (after at least a half hour of sparring), axe kick to the face but slow it down a bit and just wipe your (sweaty) foot down over their nose and chin

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's pretty much the 'official' application, but it's much harder to pull off reliably.

That said, a really good move is (after at least a half hour of sparring), axe kick to the face but slow it down a bit and just wipe your (sweaty) foot down over their nose and chin

You are not a nice person.

 

[pdg]

You are not a nice person.

I'll have you know I've been accused of being nice at least 3 times.

Usually by people I've only just met...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'll have you know I've been accused of being nice at least 3 times.

Usually by people I've only just met...

Those bastards, throwing around accusations in such an irresponsible fashion, oblivious to the harm they do.

 

[Buka]

There is another application for a downward axe kick: drop it on top of your opponent’s nose. My instructor did that to me when I was a teenager. Lucky it didn’t break my nose or my teeth.

Billy Blanks swears to me that his TKD instructor, Jong Soo Park, could throw an axe kick at so fast - and stop it in mid air right above your nose. That scares the crap out of me.

Billy said he was the scariest man he's ever met in the Arts. Which scares me even more.

 

[pdg]

Jong Soo Park, could throw an axe kick at so fast - and stop it in mid air right above your nose.

I've been trying to develop the ability to stop it like that.

I can get the height, but coming down it's either forceful or free fall until just above my waist height - I can stop it there - until that point I can barely even slow it down much.

It's a very specific bit of musculature to do it, and I don't appear to have much of that bit