Fun thread - if I were to do my kata in your style, how would it look?

[Buka]

To answer the OP, if his kata were done according to Tibetan White Crane principles, hand techniques would show much more emphasis on rotation of the torso with more exaggerated withdrawal of the other hand. Kicks would more likely be front kicks. See my recent video posts to get an idea of what it would look like.

Regarding some of the debate on whether or not there is a true distinction between one style and another, the way I see it is that fighting is fighting. But what makes one style different from another is the methods used to drill and practice the principles and the techniques. Techniques may be the same, kata may be the same, principles and concepts may be the same, but the specific way that people go about practicing them distinguishes one style from another.

Honestly I feel that our methodology could be overlaid on top of most curricula and it could largely work and be functional. The specific codified curriculum is less important and isn’t what makes the distinction.

I love the word curricula.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I train this form, I will add in:

1. body method. To use my body to push/pull my limbs.
2. all blocks followed by grab, arm wrap, and punch back with another hand.
3. the front foot step in, back foot slide forward footwork. This way, I can cover more distance and change the static punch (punch while feet are not moving) into dynamic punch (punch while feet are moving). IMO, the dynamic punch is more suitable for the real fighting situation (I have to chase my opponent when he moves back).
4. compress to the maximum and then release to the maximum principle.
5. more circular moves (such as roundhouse kick, foot sweep, hook punch, hay-maker, uppercut, hammer fist, ...). This way it will be easier on my joints.
6. ...

 

[CB Jones]

@skribs This is where styles differ...

Front kick - pick up rear leg, do front kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school teaches rear leg front kick but retract leg back to original place instead of bringing the leg down in front of you.

Side kick - pick up rear leg, do side kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school teaches to chamber the front leg...kick and bring back leg towards chamber and then set foot down back in front

Ax kick - pick up rear leg, do ax kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school does not teach the axe kick.

 

[TSDTexan]

@skribs This is where styles differ...

Front kick - pick up rear leg, do front kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school teaches rear leg front kick but retract leg back to original place instead of bringing the leg down in front of you.

Side kick - pick up rear leg, do side kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school teaches to chamber the front leg...kick and bring back leg towards chamber and then set foot down back in front

Ax kick - pick up rear leg, do ax kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school does not teach the axe kick.

Doshinkan does both. lets say we are doing mawashi geri aka round house kick. Rear leg rises to hip level while contracting the leg at the knee,
then snaps forward like a switch blade opening.
After the ball of the foot strikes into the target the leg returns to chamber, and then sets the foot down.

But when doing continuous drilling up and down the dojo floor, we chamber, kick, chamber and make that leg lead, and repeat.

Some forms we do call for one, others call for the other. And its not just roundhouse kick. its all the kicks.

the Ax Kick is found in Seipai and Seisan kata. while publically, the Japanese and Okinawan karate folks tend to disavow jodan or head level kicking as being too risky, it is still present and preserved.

Which raises more questions then it answers.

 

[skribs]

@skribs This is where styles differ...

Front kick - pick up rear leg, do front kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school teaches rear leg front kick but retract leg back to original place instead of bringing the leg down in front of you.

Side kick - pick up rear leg, do side kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school teaches to chamber the front leg...kick and bring back leg towards chamber and then set foot down back in front

Ax kick - pick up rear leg, do ax kick, land with that leg in front of you.

Our school does not teach the axe kick.

I'm honestly not sure why we train to kick and step forward instead of kick and step back first. My biggest theory is it has to do with my Master's focus on learning by doing. If you lose your balance and you're supposed to step forward, then you just land forward. Especially when you're talking about 4 & 5 year olds that have balance problems...or else 40 & 50 year olds that haven't had to work on coordination in the last 30-40 years, it can be an easier starting place. On the other hand, a school which has a bigger focus on starting off with proper habits to keep the bad habits out, might start with a more "balanced" approach (pun entirely intended) and focus on the balance for that style of kicking from day 1.

There's also that it plays into things like a roundhouse-back kick combination, where you want to move forward.

When I am teaching kick-and-return instead of kick-and-step-forward, I will do front leg side kicks about 70% of the time.

Edit to add: what we call "ax kick" at this level is more accurately described as a stretch kick.

 

[TSDTexan]

I'm honestly not sure why we train to kick and step forward instead of kick and step back first. My biggest theory is it has to do with my Master's focus on learning by doing. If you lose your balance and you're supposed to step forward, then you just land forward. Especially when you're talking about 4 & 5 year olds that have balance problems...or else 40 & 50 year olds that haven't had to work on coordination in the last 30-40 years, it can be an easier starting place. On the other hand, a school which has a bigger focus on starting off with proper habits to keep the bad habits out, might start with a more "balanced" approach (pun entirely intended) and focus on the balance for that style of kicking from day 1.

There's also that it plays into things like a roundhouse-back kick combination, where you want to move forward.

When I am teaching kick-and-return instead of kick-and-step-forward, I will do front leg side kicks about 70% of the time.

Edit to add: what we call "ax kick" at this level is more accurately described as a stretch kick.

stretch kick... is that like an uppercut with the heel rather then the drop of a hammer on the down stroke?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Ah ha,mine has no kata, check and mate skribs.

 

[skribs]

stretch kick... is that like an uppercut with the heel rather then the drop of a hammer on the down stroke?

It's just swinging your leg up to get used to the range of motion that will later become an ax kick.

 

[CB Jones]

I'm honestly not sure why we train to kick and step forward instead of kick and step back first. My biggest theory is it has to do with my Master's focus on learning by doing. If you lose your balance and you're supposed to step forward, then you just land forward.

I think they teach to retract because it is harder to catch or trap the kicking leg if it is retracting back on a horizontal line before the foot coming down.

 

[skribs]

I think they teach to retract because it is harder to catch or trap the kicking leg if it is retracting back on a horizontal line before the foot coming down.

Either way you should recoil the leg. At the level I'm talking about (white and yellow) our biggest concern is that they know the difference between the kicks and at least some idea of how to execute them.

For some of our students this is pretty easy, but for a lot of our younger students, this alone can take several months.

 

[dvcochran]

Front kick - pick up rear leg, do front kick, land with that leg in front of you.
Roundhouse kick - pick up rear leg, do roundhouse kick, land with that leg in front of you.
Side kick - pick up rear leg, do side kick, land with that leg in front of you.
Ax kick - pick up rear leg, do ax kick, land with that leg in front of you.

At the intermediate level we throw in step-behind side kick, which is a lot more practical. But at that point we're introducing more complicated footwork, like turning side kick (we call it back kick then, and later smooth out the edges to separate turning side kick from back kick), jumping kicks, and using steps to set up the kick.

A practiced fighter is going to land their leg in front or return to back leg position depending on the need and position of the opponent. We seldom practice landing the foot forward. Especially with the roundhouse and side kick there is a ton of body mechanics learned and core strength gained by returning the kicking leg back to the start position.
Stepping, turning, jumping, or sliding are variations of a given kick. We start teaching all of them from day one.
Sliding the kick takes a lot of practice to be done effectively, but when you have it in your arsenal it is very effective.
Do you always practice landing the leg in front?

 

[skribs]

A practiced fighter is going to land their leg in front or return to back leg position depending on the need and position of the opponent.

A practiced fighter has many tools. A beginner has none. We give them a a few at a time, because they're already drinking from a fire-hose.

 

[dvcochran]

One thing we used to do was a "lunging sidekick" where you throw a back leg side kick to the opponent's body as your base foot slides forward with the motion of the kick. It's more of a floater than a lunge, but that's what we call it. You can increase the distance of your normal back leg side kick by several inches to several feet. And you have to have good timing to do it.

It's pretty good against anyone who moves straight back away from you because they don't like dealing with your feet (kicks) or against anyone who stays away from you because you're the stronger fighter, or against anyone who likes to circle in a rhythm you can measure. It's really nice against anyone who doesn't kick as well as you.

It's great against boxers with no Martial training. And great against beginners, but that's hardly fair to do to them. It's great against chumps.

In self defense it's great if you do it well and you were using it as a first strike sucker shot against a guy who thinks he's out of reach. You can also use it as more of a push than a kick, and it makes for a really good push. I'm talking ash over tea kettle kind of push. And that push is nice in the dojo if you don't want to really crack em' but you do want to shake em' up a bit. Just beware of windows and floor objects.

We have the 3'x3' interlocking floor mats a lot of schools use. When drilling higher belts on the sliding (or lunging)kick we have them start with their back on the edge of a mat and practice sliding it to the opposite edge. Takes a lot of practice, hip/leg, and core strength.
Man, I wish I could still do it like I used to.

 

[JR 137]

stretch kick... is that like an uppercut with the heel rather then the drop of a hammer on the down stroke?

We use front stretch kick/mae keagi. All it really is is a straight leg kicking movement used as a warmup. We also have side stretch kick/yoko keagi. Same thing, only to the side. My previous teacher had us do it in line drills for warmup. My current teacher has only had us do it laying on the floor on our side.

For us, they’re really no different than other athletes doing “hip swings” during warmup. For some reason, we call them kicks, but there’s no combative application.

 

[Buka]

Whether the kicking leg is placed in front or in back depends on where you want your position to be after that kick, no?

In sparring I'll bring it back often, to stretch out the session. In fighting it's always going to land forward. I'm going to take away all of your space. Every inch of it no matter how I have to move to hunt you down. To me, fighting is about taking control of space. In grappling it's the same, just done in a different way.

 

[Buka]

We have the 3'x3' interlocking floor mats a lot of schools use. When drilling higher belts on the sliding (or lunging)kick we have them start with their back on the edge of a mat and practice sliding it to the opposite edge. Takes a lot of practice, hip/leg, and core strength.
Man, I wish I could still do it like I used to.

Ain't that the truth, brother, ain't that the truth.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ain't that the truth, brother, ain't that the truth.

Do like I did and just decide to stop aging.

 

[TSDTexan]

We use front stretch kick/mae keagi. All it really is is a straight leg kicking movement used as a warmup. We also have side stretch kick/yoko keagi. Same thing, only to the side. My previous teacher had us do it in line drills for warmup. My current teacher has only had us do it laying on the floor on our side.

For us, they’re really no different than other athletes doing “hip swings” during warmup. For some reason, we call them kicks, but there’s no combative application.

in TSD i teach the same two warmups.

in Doshinkan, among the warmups, we do Mawashi geri and sidekicks while laying on our side.

 

[TSDTexan]

...

 

[Buka]

Do like I did and just decide to stop aging.

But I'm trying to become like a fine wine. So far I'm just stinky cheese.