"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

[drop bear]

We have had this argument already.

Real world application is very much quality control.

And then kemosabe did his industry human weapon training. And everyone got my issue.

It kind of isn't

Repeatable observable experimentation is quality control.

And BJJ has enough real world success to validate it anyway.

Although BJJ isn't optimum, a guy who does it generally handles a guy who doesn't. A guy who does it well can generally handle a guy who does it less well. And that is the starting point for defensive tactics.

Which means that all other aspects aside BJJ will let a person control a fight to a point he can at least have a real shot of not being in danger.

And BJJ instructors tend not to be duds because they will get called out buy other instructors and get handled.

So as a base line you have a consistent method that works and that is common and easy to have access to.

 

[ballen0351]

And then kemosabe did his industry human weapon training. And everyone got my issue.

It kind of isn't

Repeatable observable experimentation is quality control.

And BJJ has enough real world success to validate it anyway.

Although BJJ isn't optimum, a guy who does it generally handles a guy who doesn't. A guy who does it well can generally handle a guy who does it less well. And that is the starting point for defensive tactics.

Which means that all other aspects aside BJJ will let a person control a fight to a point he can at least have a real shot of not being in danger.

And BJJ instructors tend not to be duds because they will get called out buy other instructors and get handled.

So as a base line you have a consistent method that works and that is common and easy to have access to.

Quality control based on what standards?
Being on a mat, with defined rules, and an understanding that neither person wants to hurt injure or kill the other person isn't great quality control for law enforcement or corrections Quality control

 

[drop bear]

Police who do BJJ obviously like BJJ. But this video makes the point with just two words.

The officer mentions in training he is

held accountable.

Real world application is too often an excuse.

 

[CB Jones]

And then kemosabe did his industry human weapon training. And everyone got my issue.

It kind of isn't

Repeatable observable experimentation is quality control.

And BJJ has enough real world success to validate it anyway.

Although BJJ isn't optimum, a guy who does it generally handles a guy who doesn't. A guy who does it well can generally handle a guy who does it less well. And that is the starting point for defensive tactics.

Which means that all other aspects aside BJJ will let a person control a fight to a point he can at least have a real shot of not being in danger.

And BJJ instructors tend not to be duds because they will get called out buy other instructors and get handled.

So as a base line you have a consistent method that works and that is common and easy to have access to.

That’s all great. But I still think using a system that utilizes bjj and other grappling techniques that are focused on LEO needs would be better for the majority of cops.

 

[drop bear]

Quality control based on what standards?
Being on a mat, with defined rules, and an understanding that neither person wants to hurt injure or kill the other person isn't great quality control for law enforcement or corrections Quality control

See the above post on being held accountable and the real world application excuse.

But I will add. Police kind of do have strict rules and shouldn't want to hurt people.

 

[drop bear]

That’s all great. But I still think using a system that utilizes bjj and other grappling techniques that are focused on LEO needs would be better for the majority of cops.

Yes and no.

In theory you are correct. But there is no dedicated system that does that to the level of competancy that BJJ has.

So instead of just finding a quality BJJ school and tweaking what you learn.

You would need to find a quality DT focused instructor. That are quite simply rare as Hens teeth.

 

[ballen0351]

Police who do BJJ obviously like BJJ. But this video makes the point with just two words.

The officer mentions in training he is

held accountable.

Real world application is too often an excuse.

Yep its easy to roll around on a mat with defined rules without duty gear and adrenaline pumping as you fight for your life.

I'm not saying BJJ is bad but its not the best choice for law enforcement. if you are in a one on one fight grappling on the ground should be the last resort. best case is you put him down and you stay up with the ability to create distance and move on to other weapons of needed. Generally your fighting someone that hasnt been searched yet you dont know of he has a weapon. You need to be able to create distance and draw if needed.
Truth is really there is no ONE size fits all. a mixture of standing and grappling is far better then just BJJ or Just boxing or Just (insert style here). So an MMA approach is far better.

 

[ballen0351]

See the above post on being held accountable and the real world application excuse.

But I will add. Police kind of do have strict rules and shouldn't want to hurt people.

We do have rules. I'm talking about the suspect your fighting that doesn't.

 

[JR 137]

What has “deadly” (or the rest of that) to do with the topic at hand?

This could get interesting...

 

[Buka]

@drop bear, it's kind of like if somebody tried to sell you a course on how to be a bouncer. You might reply to them that you have first hand experience and that you're all set.

 

[JR 137]

You guys have it all wrong. This guy’s got the answers you seek...

Side note: wow. This guy put on some lbs. I have too, but Dillman’s gotten out of control. Then again, how good of shape do you need to be in if you can throw a chi ball at will?

 

[drop bear]

@drop bear, it's kind of like if somebody tried to sell you a course on how to be a bouncer. You might reply to them that you have first hand experience and that you're all set.

Exactly.

Where they really should be doing BJJ or something.

 

[CB Jones]

Yes and no.

In theory you are correct. But there is no dedicated system that does that to the level of competancy that BJJ has.

So instead of just finding a quality BJJ school and tweaking what you learn.

You would need to find a quality DT focused instructor. That are quite simply rare as Hens teeth.

But is training every cop to be proficient in BJJ practical?

Teaching them basic striking and basic LE defensive tactics is doable and the ones that get interested in BJJ is just lagniappe.

Are you familiar with SSGT. That is what our instructors teach now.

 

[Martial D]

Interesting article and video about a firefighter who was shot and killed. The video in the article makes the argument that because of Bjj's ground fighting expertise they can control suspects better and help avoid cops losing control and getting accidently shot or stabbed. I would be very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this.

Fatal Shooting of Firefighter: Why Every Cop Should Train BJJ

BJJ is basically the art of maintaining control over someone on the ground.

Maintaining control of suspects on the ground is a regular part of a cops job.

Seems like a no brainer.

 

[drop bear]

But is training every cop to be proficient in BJJ practical?

Teaching them basic striking and basic LE defensive tactics is doable and the ones that get interested in BJJ is just lagniappe.

Are you familiar with SSGT. That is what our instructors teach now.

Not familiar with SSGT.

what level of ability would the instructor be at? So say I could train with pro MMA fighters or really competitive BJJ guns. Champion wrestlers or Judokas.

Guys who at least know their job at a really high level.

Back to this idea of being held accountable.

 

[drop bear]

Yep its easy to roll around on a mat with defined rules without duty gear and adrenaline pumping as you fight for your life.

I'm not saying BJJ is bad but its not the best choice for law enforcement. if you are in a one on one fight grappling on the ground should be the last resort. best case is you put him down and you stay up with the ability to create distance and move on to other weapons of needed. Generally your fighting someone that hasnt been searched yet you dont know of he has a weapon. You need to be able to create distance and draw if needed.
Truth is really there is no ONE size fits all. a mixture of standing and grappling is far better then just BJJ or Just boxing or Just (insert style here). So an MMA approach is far better.

And this is the thing. BJJ isn't really optimum for MMA. But because the quality control is there. People get by.

 

[CB Jones]

Not familiar with SSGT.

what level of ability would the instructor be at? So say I could train with pro MMA fighters or really competitive BJJ guns. Champion wrestlers or Judokas.

Guys who at leas know their job at a really high level.

The main guy over DY training seems solid to me.

Certified instructor and trains bjj on his own time plus years of experience in LEO. He is also the agencies use of force expert and who reviews all use of force applications.

 

[ballen0351]

And this is the thing. BJJ isn't really optimum for MMA. But because the quality control is there. People get by.

Nor is it optimum for police work

 

[Martial D]

Not familiar with SSGT.

what level of ability would the instructor be at? So say I could train with pro MMA fighters or really competitive BJJ guns. Champion wrestlers or Judokas.

Guys who at least know their job at a really high level.

Exactly this. The problem with most SD stuff and even LEO based stuff is it's not trained with resistance at ANY level, much less a high level.

Hens teeth indeed.

At least BJJ, even if trained with restrictions, is trained properly against resistance, so you might actually be able to pull some of it off when it counts.

 

[Buka]

That’s all great. But I still think using a system that utilizes bjj and other grappling techniques that are focused on LEO needs would be better for the majority of cops.

I was fortunate, I had carte blanche designing DT, which was based on a cop's needs. I was also running a dojo at the time - and all cops, fire fighters and emergency responders trained for free, where they could do more advanced things. A few of them took advantage. But most, especially friends, were like "Feels to much like being at work and you're not paying me." We still laugh about that.