Do you pull your leg back after kicking?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sometime you may want to use your kick to set up your punch. In order to do so, you will need to move from your kicking range into your punching range. If you pull your kicking leg back, you will still be in your kicking range. Even if you can step in after that, it will take you an extra unnecessary step. If you don't pull your kicking leg back, your leg may be caught by your opponent, and you have to deal with it.

What's your opinion on this?

 

[granfire]

oh, you mean setting it down behind you? You set it down in front of you the momentum will carry you in. We trained hard to set the leg in front to avoid one-kick wonder attacks. it would be something like front leg - back leg - front arm - back arm Initially I thought you wanted to know if I pulled the leg back, not setting it down - the answer to this would have been yes, of course. For one I don't want to be beat with my own leg, then you can kick time and time again.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Answer: it depends...

Sometimes you pull the leg back, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you kick from outside punching range, sometimes you don't.

 

[jks9199]

The kick should be under control, both going in and coming out. Generally, the kick should come back to the chamber, so that I can put it down where I want it to be. Falling forward off a kick is just as bad as falling backwards... Of course, I also feel and have shown that I can punch on one leg...

 

[K-man]

As DD said, it depends. If you are in a point scoring competition you are likely to be pulling the foot back. As the front kick is taught in a Okinawa it is more likely to go to the ground as you continue in to attack with fist or elbow. Teaching with bags I don't get my guys to pull the leg back at all. Where it finishes depends on where you partner is heading after the kick. If you don't move your partner you can step back. If you do move your partner you naturally move forward. The way I teach front kick it is extremely unlikely to be caught. If it were to be caught, moving your body mass in and down drags your opponent down anyway making him quite vulnerable to the follow up strike that is coming.
:asian:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If it were to be caught, moving your body mass in and down drags your opponent down anyway making him quite vulnerable to the follow up strike that is coming.
:asian:

I agree that if your opponent catches your leg, the best counter is to put all your weigh on your leading leg and "lift your back leg up in the air". This way your opponent has to deal with your entire body weight along with both of your free hands.

 

[simplicity]

I personally don't like the term "range", it's to limiting and puts you in a box.. If you are kicking off the rear leg then you want to use the falling step principle, immediately punching... The falling step will put more power into your punch.... If kicking off the lead leg, it works the same.... Keep "IT" simple!

 

[seasoned]

As a white belt we pulled it back, as an instrutor I taught to pull it back. All else is a hybrid. You need to start somewhere............

 

[K-man]

As a white belt we pulled it back, as an instrutor I taught to pull it back. All else is a hybrid. You need to start somewhere............

Likewise, until I switched to the Okinawan training. Now I teach it depending on application and intent. For example, Gekisai is moving in so we don't pull right back, Saifa the kick comes back because in the bunkai the knee raise is just that, a close range knee to the groin or chest, and the following 'kick' from that range is either lifting their groin with the shin or taking out the leg (osoto gari), in either case you are not moving forward so the foot comes back. I'd be interested on your thoughts here.
:asian:

 

[geezer]

As others have said, it all depends on your objective. In the Ving Tsun system I train our objective is nearly always to close, and we try to always maintain forward pressure on our opponent. Accordingly we do not withdraw our kicks. Kicks are thrust forward and then dropped to the floor without retraction. There is no withdrawing to chamber. Then we draw the rear leg up using the kick like a step to pull us forward. This helps us close on our opponent to our preferred range where we can apply punches with both hands while continuing to apply low-level leg attacks. One of our system's mottos (Kuen Kuit) is "Every kick a step, every step a kick."

One thing should be noted. In my lineage of Yip Man Ving Tsun, we keep our weight back on the rear leg so when we extend a kick and then drop it to the floor, we are not falling forward onto our front leg. We are setting the leg down in a firm, controlled movement.

Should our opponent succeed in grabbing our kick (unlikely since our kicks are usually directed at low targets) we do not lean forward onto our kicking leg to free it. We simply bend the leg at the knee (so that the lower portion of our leg angles sharply downward) and stomp our foot to the floor, freeing the leg and completing our forward step. A nice side-effect of this approach is that we often stomp or trap our opponent's front foot as we put our kick down. People unfamiliar with this approach often find this disconcerting.

Now there are those occasions when we throw multiple kicks with the lead leg ("chain kicking"). In those cases at completion, each kick is retracted a bit to set up the next one, but we do not retract deeply to a full chamber. The knee is simply flexed a bit to allow for the next thrust. Ving Tsun relies heavily on "short power" with minimum withdrawal for both hands and feet.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

As others have said, it all depends on your objective. In the Ving Tsun system I train our objective is nearly always to close, and we try to always maintain forward pressure on our opponent. Accordingly we do not withdraw our kicks. Kicks are thrust forward and then dropped to the floor without retraction. There is no withdrawing to chamber. Then we draw the rear leg up using the kick like a step to pull us forward. This helps us close on our opponent to our preferred range where we can apply punches with both hands while continuing to apply low-level leg attacks. One of our system's mottos (Kuen Kuit) is "Every kick a step, every step a kick."

One thing should be noted. In my lineage of Yip Man Ving Tsun, we keep our weight back on the rear leg so when we extend a kick and then drop it to the floor, we are not falling forward onto our front leg. We are setting the leg down in a firm, controlled movement.

Should our opponent succeed in grabbing our kick (unlikely since our kicks are usually directed at low targets) we do not lean forward onto our kicking leg to free it. We simply bend the leg at the knee (so that the lower portion of our leg angles sharply downward) and stomp our foot to the floor, freeing the leg and completing our forward step. A nice side-effect of this approach is that we often stomp or trap our opponent's front foot as we put our kick down. People unfamiliar with this approach often find this disconcerting.

Now there are those occasions when we throw multiple kicks with the lead leg ("chain kicking"). In those cases at completion, each kick is retracted a bit to set up the next one, but we do not retract deeply to a full chamber. The knee is simply flexed a bit to allow for the next thrust. Ving Tsun relies heavily on "short power" with minimum withdrawal for both hands and feet.

Certainly it does depend!

In IRT we typically have an attitude that we do not want to run the gauntlet again. Meaning if I am kicking I do not want to have to go through his defenses all over again. Rechambering, withdrawing a kick means that I typically have to kick again or cover the distance to get to my opponent. Like Wing Chun as geezer mentioned above if I kick I am closing and I do not want to have to do it all over again. So we typically kick and move forward, closing and then into hand striking, trapping, joint locking or grappling. If the opponent goes down and is out from the kick all the better.

The above does not mean that you cannot practice to kick and rechamber, withdraw the leg and then kick, strike again. It does of course depend on what you want to accomplish and your mentality in what you want to do. Personally if I am kicking I am closing and I do not want to have to do it all over again. Just my 02.

 

[seasoned]

As a white belt we pulled it back, as an instructor I taught to pull it back. All else is a hybrid. You need to start somewhere............

From my post above I based the op on a new student first learning kicks. Once you advanced to 2 person drills the hybrid would come into play as you adapt to the situation.

As you look at the video below you will see that the kata is done pulling the kick back (for consistency in kata technique) but the 2 person drill adapts to the distance factor as well as the flow of the situation.

This is why in a kata based system you always adhere to a standard through kata and from there adapt to the situation at hand. I truly don't like to make broad statements regarding techniques because it may differ depending on who you are talking to.

There is a saying that I use often at the dojo and that is " don't do what I do, but do what I did to get to this point". In other words lay the foundation of technique first.

 

[K-man]

From my post above I based the op on a new student first learning kicks. Once you advanced to 2 person drills the hybrid would come into play as you adapt to the situation.

As you look at the video below you will see that the kata is done pulling the kick back (for consistency in kata technique) but the 2 person drill adapts to the distance factor as well as the flow of the situation.

This is why in a kata based system you always adhere to a standard through kata and from there adapt to the situation at hand. I truly don't like to make broad statements regarding techniques because it may differ depending on who you are talking to.

There is a saying that I use often at the dojo and that is " don't do what I do, but do what I did to get to this point". In other words lay the foundation of technique first.

In this example it is lot simply pulling the foot back but actually stepping back as happens in the second kick in Seiunchin. In most of Taira's bunkai the kick in the kata is used as a knee strike as shown in all three of his bunkai examples. After kicks in Shisochin, Sanseru and Kururunfa the kick steps forward into the elbow strike, so again not a complete retraction.
I was hoping to find a bit of Taira's Gekisai bunkai where again the kick from the kata is demonstrated in the bunkai as a knee to the groin, then a press forward. The only ones I can find in a hurry, he has left the knee out of the example totally. But have a look at the video of Paul Enfield going through Gekisai kata and look at the foot being placed in down front. (Paul is Jundokan and now with Taira's new organisation.) That is what I was talking about earlier. I can go along with the retraction in kata for consistency but when we are training kicks we normally don't pull right back. Then again, we don't chamber for a front kick anyway, although when teaching it to beginners we do. Consistently inconsistent.
:asian:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When your opponent blocks your side kick, sometime it's hard for you to pull that kicking leg back.

In the longfist system, when you throw your left side kick, if your opponent uses his

1. right arm to block it and make your body to spin to your left, you will borrow his spinning force, and use your right palm to strike on his neck.

2. left arm to block it and make your body to spin to your right, you will also borrow his spinning force, and use your right spin back fist to punch on his head.

In both cases, you don't pull your kicking leg back.

Since the side kick may be caught, The moment that your opponent gets hold on your kicking leg, you can stick your leg behind his leading leg, put all your weight on that leg, and lift your back leg in the air. This way not only your opponent has to deal with your entire body weight, he also has to deal with your both free hands as well. Sine he will need to use at least one arm to hold on your leg, your 2 free hands will have advantage. It may help you to obtain your "clinching".

 

[geezer]

.

Boy, this particular double-arm leg grab looks insanely dangerous. With his head up and both his arms clutching the captured kick he just begging to be pummeled in the face, although the throw is an equally viable way to punish this error!

 

[oftheherd1]

In the Hapkido I learned, we had many kick defenses. Inasmuch as we generally move into an attack, we don't usually allow time for an opponent to pull his leg back before we have done something unpleasant to the opponent.

But from the perspective of the person throwing the kick, I would want it out and back quickly to lessen the chance of it being intercepted to my disadvantage. As to whether or not to place the kicking leg down in front or behind, it would depend on what I anticipated myself, or my opponent, doing next.

I don't remember anyone mentioning recambering while jumping forward on the plant leg to kick again. That can sometimes be a useful move simply because it is unexpected.

 

[Zero]

Boy, this particular double-arm leg grab looks insanely dangerous. With his head up and both his arms clutching the captured kick he just begging to be pummeled in the face, although the throw is an equally viable way to punish this error!

Yeah, Bruce Lee or someone stated "you can bite a fist/hand in defence but don't go looking to bite a fist or you'll end up spitting teeth". Something along those lines. Same applies to catching kicks (unless you fighting a newbie), don't go out to catch a kick but if the opportunity presents itself, go for it. That particular grab techinque looks like a shocker with him leaning down with his head so low to grab the leg, so many ways to punish that, although I do like the throw.

Unless am doing a muay thai round house that is going to (hopefuly) go right through whatever it is thrown at, i.e. no chance to snap back, I would usually snap back the leg as quickly as would if throwing a jab, don't leave your hand/foot out there to be grabbed/trapped and so you can keep throwing strikes.

As said by others, just because you snap it back it does not mean you can't plant the front/kicking foot down closer to the opponent (you're not ending up back where you were still in kicking range) - in fact as Brian says, this is often used as a "bridging the gap" technique for if in close follow ups after the kick are required. While I have just said, I for one, don't go out of my way looking to grab kicks, there is a nice leg fold take down I wish I could find online to post.

 

[Zero]

Ok, so most of the techniques shown on Youtube are appaling : )
One way to trap a snap-kick to head leading to take down is:
- block kick to side of head with opposite hand (i.e. much like when you slip a punch to come in and you cover your LH jaw/head with your other (RH) hand to do a body shot with you left hand;
- jam/strike forearm into the rear of the knee of the kicking leg (much like when you fold an arm back on itself, this will have the same effect on the leg);
- as you fold the leg back on itself you also angle and thrust you arm (which has jammed into the back of the knee) downwards to the ground;
- drive them head first into the ground, you can also: transition to put on a figure four to the calf wiht yourself standing/crouched (very painful, can elicit tap out), sweep/kick out the grounded foot (maximising instability and impact into ground of opponent), choose to go to ground with them effecting a rear mount (never too keen on that phrase) or knee into spine, disengage/release and do a football kick to side of head/stomp to back of neck/head and move on to get a burger and fries from the local grill shack.

This must be all over youtube but could not find it, hope the above is easy enough to follow. Go have some fun.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In the longfist system, most of the time, you don't pull your kicking leg back. Here is an example. The interest thing is the Tantui form is the most beginner level training form. A longfist guy would train not to pull his kicking leg back in his beginner level training stage. That's quite different from most of the Karate training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRfDppVWvg&feature=youtu.be

You can also see that in the more advance level longfist form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEpCmIgQuA&feature=youtu.be

 

[Touch Of Death]

In the longfist system, most of the time, you don't pull your kicking leg back. Here is an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRfDppVWvg&feature=youtu.be

The interest thing is the Tantui form is the most beginner level training form. A longfist guy would train not to pull his kicking leg back in his beginner level training stage. That's quite different from most of the Karate training.

You can also see that in the more advance level longfist form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEpCmIgQuA&feature=youtu.be

Actualy his is bringing it back, by moving up to the weapon with his body. Return motion is half your art and that guy is a ****ing Artist! but don't let your self believe he isn't re-chambering. Watch it again!