Did you ever

[Xue Sheng]

Have your opinion changed about a style by 1 person or seminar?

Here is my story, what's yours

I was reading another post, who have you meant, and it got me thinking about this

I will admit many years ago I did not have a very high opinion of Japanese Karate. This came from my initial training in Jujitsu and was later confirmed by my training in TKD and then CMA. It seemed that no matter who my Jujitsu teacher spared, if they were from a Karate school he could always take out their front leg very quickly and in some cases multiple times. My Jujitsu training was from way back in the stone age and back then there was a lot of sparing going on within the school I was at and outside between various other arts and schools. It was actually a lot of fun and quite friendly.

Later after training TKD (Pre-Olympic, like I said - stone age) I went into CMA and my first CMA Sifu allowed basically gave us the school Saturday afternoons and we spared, multiple styles once again, and I always was able to take the front leg of any Japanese karate guy every time

Several years ago (approaching modern times) a friend of mine who trained Aikido and Karate talked me into going to this 3 day martial arts thing and one of the seminars given by Fumio Demura. It was not an easy sell and I reluctantly gave in and I am happy I did to this day.

He was older than most in the room and smaller than most in the room and he put us through a workout that left us all, but him, gasping for air and he did the workout right along with us. And then we started working on apps and which involved throws, which I did not know karate had until then he knew his art incredibly well and demonstrated every app on various people with ease and after watching his stance and watching him move I was fairly convinced that taking out his front leg was not an option, unless I was looking to get hurt.

I later discussed this with my friend and a few others over the years and I can only chalk it up to the majority of Karate people my Sensei spared and that I later spared were points fighters or they were just bad at karate. I have an American Kempo guy, who was one hell of a fighter; give me the points fighter possibility.

I have since been much more open minded about all martial arts.

Anyone else have something like this happen that changed their opinion?

 

[terryl965]

I beleieve we can learn from everybody as long as what is being tought is the real deal and not some made up from the minds of dreams.
I have learned alot from other styles and have brought alot of it back to my school and use it as well. The only difference is I still call everything TKD because that is what I teach.

 

[Kacey]

From the student's side of the Student/Instructor relationship: "A good student can learn any time, anywhere." This is the theory I was raised on - no matter how bad the instruction/situation/whatever, a good student can find something to learn - and I try to be a good student. Have there been events at which I have learned less? You bet - but I've always learned something.

 

[grydth]

This is odd - I don't disagree with anything that's been posted, yet I reach a different conclusion.

No, I have not had an opinion as to a style or dojo positively changed by experiemce with one person.

Honestly, while I do not spend a lot of time thinking about what others are doing, in the back of my mind I do consider some places are just McDojo's.

If we accept that there be exceptional individuals who would prosper anywhere - how does this reflect favorably on their style? To me, if you find a plant growing and flowering in bad soil, it is a reflection on the hardiness of the plant, not the quality of the dirt.

If a McDojo turns out one person who is terrific in knowledge and technique..... well, what of the other 99% ? I'm thinking one samurai does not outweigh 99 oafs.

I do have to say this thread is a refreshing change - usually such things are debated from the standpoint of whether one bad person ruins one's previously high opinion.

 

[Shotochem]

I would have to say Yes. Many people.

When I first started my MA journey, I only had exposure to my Shotokan friends. The longer I trained I met other MA who had joined us that trained other styles.

They had peaked my interest and we started to exchange techniques, philosophies and ideas. I started to become more open minded and began to have a greater appreciation for other arts.

I realized that I had consumed too much Kool Aid and there were other arts out there that were just as good, only different than what I was learning.

My world of knowledge was a little smaller that I had previously thought.

Today I'm studying Kempo. I am also dabbling in a couple of others with a class or 2 every month. I have started to become interested and confident enough to attend seminars in other styles.

There is so much to learn so little time.:idunno:

-Marc-

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is odd - I don't disagree with anything that's been posted, yet I reach a different conclusion.

No, I have not had an opinion as to a style or dojo positively changed by experiemce with one person.

Honestly, while I do not spend a lot of time thinking about what others are doing, in the back of my mind I do consider some places are just McDojo's.

If we accept that there be exceptional individuals who would prosper anywhere - how does this reflect favorably on their style? To me, if you find a plant growing and flowering in bad soil, it is a reflection on the hardiness of the plant, not the quality of the dirt.

If a McDojo turns out one person who is terrific in knowledge and technique..... well, what of the other 99% ? I'm thinking one samurai does not outweigh 99 oafs.

I do have to say this thread is a refreshing change - usually such things are debated from the standpoint of whether one bad person ruins one's previously high opinion.

I agree, there are martial arts organizations that I have rather low opinions of (there is one local to me and this school is HUGE), I just do not let that organization dictate my view of the entire style that they "claim" to teach.

But there are on ocassion talented people that come out of them and you are right chances are they would do farily well anywhere they trained. And it is also likely they trained very hard and very seriously, more so than just about anyone else at thier school.

However in my miss-spent youth, I was judging an entire style (generic) by what was in reality my experience with only a few of its practitioners and my view was reinforced every time I got a chance to train with a Karate person, and to be honest it was all Karate, not just Japanese; I did not know about the different styles and origins then since at the time I saw no reason to look further into Karate since I believed it was no good.

It was my run in with Fumio Demura the showed me that I needed to re-evaluate that view and show me how wrong that view was. It was also after that that I meant and had a chance to spare an American Kempo guy that was a great fighter and to be entirely honest he pretty much won every sparring match we had, and it was not point sparing either (ouch :EG

Of course I blamed it on the fact he was younger than me… a whole 7 years younger

 

[Sukerkin]

Whilst my experiences are not in the same league as some noted above, in that I have not contacted face-to-face any one person who has changed my views on an art, I do have to say that conversations certain people here at MT have helped me overcome some fairly strong prejudices about MMA, Ninjutsu and TKD.

 

[Flying Crane]

When I was studying kenpo during my junior high and high school years in the mid-late 1980s, one of our favorite pass-times was to make fun of Tae Kwon Do. My instructors both had experience with TKD, one of them had a TKD black belt as well, so I figured they knew what they were talking about. The felt it had little to offer, and I just took their word for it.

When I was in college, I met Oscar, a student from Mexico, who's dream was to compete on the Mexican Olympic TKD team. We got together to work out and do some sparring. I expected to make quick work of him. Instead, he pretty much kicked my butt up and down, and it wasn't point sparring techniques either. He was hitting me hard with clean technique, and taking me down, and just really dominating me. To say it was a harsh reality check for me would be an accurate evaluation. It took my ego years to be able to admit even to myself that he really ruled the day. Unfortunately, my ego didn't allow me to get together with him more than a couple of times. I think I could have learned a lot from Oscar.

So this really opened my eyes and my mind to the difference between judging a system, and judging an individual. There are lousy individuals in all systems, even the "best" system, if that notion can even be established. There are great individuals, even in the worst systems. Really, I don't think you can judge a system. You can only judge the individual.

At the same time as my encounter with Oscar, there was a TKD school in town. I had visited the school, and was horrified by what I saw. There was a brown belt student who was just incredibly timid and unable to work any techs and had very little skill. Some of the other students, brown belt and below, were ridiculing and harrassing him mercilessly. The teacher seemed to be fully aware of this, and even took part. According to the talk I overheard, he was getting ready to test for black belt.

A few weeks later I visited the school again. That same timid brown belt was now a black belt. He was no better and had no more confidence or skill than before, and the harrassment and intimidation and ridicule from the other students and the teacher continued just as strongly. The whole situation left a bad taste in my mouth and actually made be feel kind of sad.

So there is a case of judging the school, but I still distinguish this from judging an entire style. By the way, Oscar told me that he had taken a couple of classes at this school as well. During a sparring session, he broke the arm of one of the instructors. He never went back. Go Oscar!

 

[still learning]

Hello, My son and I started in Shotokan Karate, later the Sensi quit and the nearest school was a Univeral Kempo-karate school.

We love the kempo moves and style of fighing. Later my son join the High school Judo team.

Sensi Al Miyatake....change my whole thoughts on effectiveness of JUDO...I too start to learn Judo . He is a great Sensi...who train in Japan

He is kind and makes every throw look easy...he also show us the other side of JUDO...NOT the sport side...the street side!

We were impress! Today I am a strong believer in the ART OF JUDO! How effective of an art it is...plus you learn faster because of the full contact and actual throwing.

Judo is more than you think it is! ......Aloha