Delicate Hands

[drop bear103]

Ok. Bec Rawlings. Professional bare knuckle boxer training on the heavy bag.

what do you guys notice?

13K views · 416 reactions | On that no fight flow 😭 Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship | Rowdy Bec Rawlings

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[Fungus94]

Does anyone have any suggestions for unobtrusive hand protection she could subtly slip on for a bit of protection for pad work?

Ive tested alot of glove, including tape and wraps....

I want mainly skin protection, i do NOT want someting supporting or constraining my hand or wrist.. I want to be able to in principle also do open hand or knifehand strikes and uraken,,, so boxing cloves and boxing wraps i do not like...

If it wasnt for that fact that skin rips and my sparring partners get blood on their gis i would prefer no gloves all days of week but... i end up using this one... open fingers and thumb and loose fit (no "support").. my hand and wrist is unconstrained...

Leather glove.. but wen i do certain strikes ad heavy bag, i still rip the skin... the only soluiot to that is... dont do angular strikes at max forces... so i go them occasionally only to allow healing in between sessions

I cut of and demcount the velcro strap.. as it serves no function so imodified the gloves.. this allows me to do any strik, seiken and all open hand strikes and uraken

I use the same gloves for fighting, especially if my knuckes are sore to save opponets from blood stains

 

[Gyakuto102]

If it wasnt for that fact that skin rips and my sparring partners get blood on their gis i would prefer no gloves all days of week

Wow you’ve reminded me that when I took my brown belt grading, my partner for the various kumite, Andrew, whom I met on the week long summer course, had a cut on his knuckle of his right fist. So by the end of a few hours training I had browny-red dots an all over my dōgi but concentrated over my right kidney and right rib areas! I’d forgotten all about that..

 

[Fungus94]

had browny-red dots an all over my dōgi but concentrated over my right kidney and right rib areas!

Oh sweet memories!

 

[wab251]

Conditioning the hands would be the way to go. If done right, her hands will still be as soft and gentle and flexible as they are now.

Most people think conditioning the hands means hitting hard... with power. They end up damaging their hands... they do lose flexibility and softness....

When conditioning, get technique first, then accuracy. Your tip on using the makiwara are spot on. Hit it accurately, and with speed... but not power. Learn to control, just barely making contact.

To increase contact power, start light.... use the hitting surface to make the correct contact on something hard.... but only making contact. I used the restroom doors at work.... they were big, heavy, solid wood doors with a nice metal plate to push open. I would use my punching fist, to just touch the door, with the hitting surface, quick but controlled... then slowly push the door open. If it hurts at all, its way too hard. (I only use the last bit of the punching technique, so only moving my hand an inch or so... also not wanting to draw too much attention.... this gave me a decent 1 inch punch as a knock effect) Just be happy with a snappy touch. Over time, that touch will have more power.... there will be no pain, or injury. After a while (a year or so) you should be able to hit a heavy bag very hard, bare knuckle with no issues at all. And no one will be able to tell from looking at or feeling your hands (unless you are hitting them of coarse)

Don't over do it, be patient but consistent. And always keep the conditioning going.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Most people think conditioning the hands means hitting hard... with power.

This is one way. This method builds punching power and conditions skin and bone.

I would use my punching fist, to just touch the door, with the hitting surface, quick but controlled.

This is another way. There should be some resistance however - this is the function of the makiwara. A bit of give in the makiwara structure is good for this method. It will condition skin and somewhat the bone but not build strength as much as the first method. With proper chinkuchi and speed it can build punching force.

When conditioning, get technique first, then accuracy.

This is good advice for both methods.

 

[Same Trick48]

For simplicity (for me!), I ordered her a pair of Tokaido gloves (with the JKA logo)…she’ll like that touch.
View attachment 33626

View attachment 33627

Traditional Shotokan(JKA) kumite competition is a no glove activity, strikes and kicks allows “skin touch”contact to head/face and somewhat more “juice”/penetratin to body.
The glove in picture may protect the hand in an accidental deeper skin touch contact, but mostly it serves to give some extra cm in reach for for example in WKF kumite competition .
Don’t they do knuckle pushups anymore ?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Don’t they do knuckle pushups anymore ?

I do them every other day - harder on my old shoulders than knuckles though.

 

[Gyakuto102]

This is one way. This method builds punching power and conditions skin and bone.

What does ‘conditions’ really mean, I wonder? The laying down of more skin due to abrasion like on unkempt feet? Increasing bone density? Small amplitude vibration can do the latter, rubbing with a rough surface the former. Does it mean damaging hand nerve endings to render them insensible so you can hit harder without the physiological warning of pain? In the 21st Century, Western world with little conflict, I’m not sure I really want to do any of things to my hands or advise my other to do to her’s! The hand’s form is, after all, is the pinnacle of primate evolution, capable of playing Edward Van Halen’s Eruption, removing a tumor, constructing a watch and picking one’s nose

 

[Gyakuto102]

Traditional Shotokan(JKA) kumite competition is a no glove activity, strikes and kicks allows “skin touch”contact to head/face and somewhat more “juice”/penetratin to body.
The glove in picture may protect the hand in an accidental deeper skin touch contact, but mostly it serves to give some extra cm in reach for for example in WKF kumite competition .
Don’t they do knuckle pushups anymore ?

Dojo all have mats now We used to be thrown on wooden floors and learned to not get too hurt!

 

[HighKick1]

Dojo all have mats now We used to be thrown on wooden floors and learned to not get too hurt!

I briefly trained on a concrete floor. When we do mission trips to Central and South America, this is still quite common.

 

[isshinryuronin]

What does ‘conditions’ really mean, I wonder? The laying down of more skin due to abrasion like on unkempt feet? Increasing bone density? Small amplitude vibration can do the latter, rubbing with a rough surface the former. Does it mean damaging hand nerve endings to render them insensible so you can hit harder without the physiological warning of pain? In the 21st Century, Western world with little conflict, I’m not sure I really want to do any of things to my hands or advise my other to do to her’s! The hand’s form is, after all, is the pinnacle of primate evolution, capable of playing Edward Van Halen’s Eruption, removing a tumor, constructing a watch and picking one’s nose

Not talking about pounding fingers or fists into gravel or sand, just hitting the makiwara in moderation. A commonsense use of it can toughen and strengthen without deformation. While I'm a believer in the old ways for the most part, I draw the line at turning your hands into nerveless, fingernail less slabs of hardened meat.

 

[Same Trick48]

Dojo all have mats now We used to be thrown on wooden floors and learned to not get too hurt!

Yeah , looks as kindergarten nowadays, all soft and safe. Soon they’ll be dressed in pyjamas too

 

[Gyakuto102]

Yeah , looks as kindergarten nowadays, all soft and safe. Soon they’ll be dressed in pyjamas too

Modern Karateka = big, girl’s blouses

 

[Gyakuto102]

Those protective gloves arrive today and they’re tiny! I ordered a small because my other half is tiny but wow! these are like they’re made for a toddler! Oh well…

 

[Fungus94]

What does ‘conditions’ really mean, I wonder?

I have no illusion that any kind of hardening will prevent tearing skin or bleeding as you strike hard.

What I observe is that those that claim to work the bag without gloves

1) They minimze contact time and avoid strikes that imply that your hands slides or drag the bag. The latter will tear skin.

The safest strikes that work fine without gloves are clean purely perpendicular strikes without lateral force compoments. So getting into the habit of using ONLY these seems to be the trick.

But I think that excludes too many nice strikes, so i use gloves to train all kinds. In a right fight i would not care about ripping skin, it's not worse than a bruise, it goes away fast.

My personal experience is feel that generally conditioning also of other body parts mainly means

1) mental conditioning, such as enduring benign pain, and not letting pain distract your focus of the opponent, is the main benefit. Learning to distinguish dangeours from benign pain, and dont let benign pain take your focus away.

2) Some other conditioning seems to be about learning microsdjustments in posture and alignment and internal synchronisation and neuromuscular improvement at the instant you deliver and eating strikes.

I think these things are more important than the physical conditioning, such as growing thicker skins or bones, killing sensory neurons, or whatever people imagine.

Neuromuscular part and mental pain conditioning takes you a long way I think. Neuromuscular training when hitting seems to be also about the exact timing when impact comes and when to peak. This is easier to learn IMO when you have a more distinct target. A too swampy bag or no bag at all, or too swampy boxing gloves, you dont get the precise feedback you need to learn. This is how i feel at least.

OTOH if you hit the bad purely for cardio training, then the purpose isnt to perfect all the techniques anyway.

 

[isshinryuronin]

The safest strikes that work fine without gloves are clean purely perpendicular strikes without lateral force compoments.

True, but most of the punches I use are of this type. Even so, there is some tearing and blood. An old saying is, "a workout without bruises and blood is like a day without sunshine."

But I think that excludes too many nice strikes,

A partner holding focus pads at various angles will allow any punch or strike to hit perpendicular.

Neuromuscular part and mental pain conditioning takes you a long way I think. Neuromuscular training when hitting seems to be also about the exact timing when impact comes and when to peak. This is easier to learn IMO when you have a more distinct target. A too swampy bag or no bag at all, or too swampy boxing gloves, you dont get the precise feedback you need to learn. This is how i feel at least.

Agree. The mental pain conditioning along with the discipline that comes with it I think is useful in a general way. In a real fight adrenalin keeps much pain at a manageable level. if noticed at all, at least until the fight is over. Arm conditioning is quite useful I believe for both blocking and striking applications and a practice I grew up with. I was not initially trained to kick with the shins so never got into using them to kick tree trunks. My second sensei uses a hammer to tap on his shins. I did not embrace this training as, well, my ancient shins just don't like the pain. I have enough of that just exercising.

 

[Gyakuto102]

Personally, I do think a bit of ‘hitting’ resisting objects it a vital bit of Karate training but mainly to give feedback on how to distribute one's weight at the moment of impact, how to align one’s joints including the bones of the hand etc. This can, however, be achieved with padding on one’s fists should you wish to keep them intact; perhaps if you’re a hand model.

 

[Fungus94]

Personally, I do think a bit of ‘hitting’ resisting objects it a vital bit of Karate training but mainly to give feedback on how to distribute one's weight at the moment of impact, how to align one’s joints including the bones of the hand etc. This can, however, be achieved with padding on one’s fists should you wish to keep them intact; perhaps if you’re a hand model.

I largelt agree here, I consider the neuromuscular training and the bone alignment to be one training moment, so train how to explode and peak and hit with correct alignment. A think padding on the knuckels (<1cm) is fine I think, but thicker padding such as in very thick bulky gloves smears the feedback of the peak to the point where I think it is hard to train effiently. If the padding or soft target gives you +/-3cm then the precision if the feedback will not give the correct feedback, it will be random.

edit: One of our senseis says this is the reason he does not like mitts training, he prefers direct sparring, because your relative distance to the opponents body and face needs to be different to deliver a correct strike into the mitts vs delivering a correct strike into the opponents body. So he feels you "train" with wrong distances. Also the mitts is much softer than a ribcage. And I think he has a good point.

 

[Gyakuto102]

Traditionally, Karateka used to aim their strikes about a one inch/2.5cm/one ‘sun’ in front their target and was thus called in Japanese ‘sundome’ and was a criteria for ‘ippon’ in non-contact competitions. It’s a great skill that I fear is lost, not least due thevusing of boxing glove-like mitts.