Reclaiming Tai Chi

[MnemonicMike2 1]

This doesn't mean anything. BJJ guys love to have dirt on their back.

I may have asked this question so many times.

My question is:

When I grab your arm, how can you push me away when our bodies are connected?

I think you're talking about the scenario of "what you do is not push hands". Push hands is a limited, training engagement. When people who have no jin, qi, dantian, etc., skills and they think push hands is some form of "safe wrestling", they miss the point.

 

[MnemonicMike2 1]

The big reveal is that it shines a light on a very uncomfortable place for a lot of american/euro tai chi players; they aren't really doing push hands properly so it isn't that they choose to participate or not, they simply can't participate. For those people it is fine, they can do whatever they are doing and be happy, but it must be understood that they aren't really practicing "authentic taijiquan". I'll explain, finally, what this means. If Taijiquan is the employ of the 13 energies, then if you cannot or will not demonstrate these energies, you are not doing "authentic taijiquan".

This is the core truth for both "push hands" and for people who are offering online courses: if you can't demonstrate the basic jin skills, move your body with your dantian, etc., you're not in a position to be offering courses or pretending to do/teach "push hands". That was the point about my earlier anecdote about Chen Village and how someone is not allowed to learn push hands until they have shown that they have at least learned to move their own bodies with the basic skills. The same thing with "belts" ... wearing a colored belt doesn't do you any good if Joe Blow can touch your arm and feel that you have no jin skills.

 

[Wing Woo Gar92 15]

It would only invite more questions about something he does not practice..
The point in answering would be ?

Because some of us like reading the replies regardless of how they land.

 

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

AI answers my questions as the following.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tai Chi Push Hands (推手, Tuishou) develops a set of skills that are often misunderstood. Many people focus on the external movements, but the real value is in the attributes it develops. These attributes can be highly useful in combat if trained realistically and combined with striking, wrestling, and sparring.

1. Sensitivity (听劲, Ting Jin)
2. Balance Control (重心控制)
3. Yielding Without Collapsing (化劲, Hua Jin)
4. Structural Power (整劲, Whole-Body Power)
5. Timing (时机)
6. Relaxation Under Pressure (松, Song)
7. Distance and Positioning
8. Borrowing Force (借力)

By itself, it does not adequately train:

• Defending punches to the face
• Defending kicks
• Ground fighting
• Striking under pressure
• Adrenaline management
• Realistic resistance

To make push-hands skills combat-effective, practitioners should add:

1. Pad work
2. Striking drills
3. Clinch sparring
4. Wrestling or judo
5. Controlled free sparring

 

[Same Trick102 3]

This is the core truth for both "push hands" and for people who are offering online courses: if you can't demonstrate the basic jin skills, move your body with your dantian, etc., you're not in a position to be offering courses or pretending to do/teach "push hands".

in western boxing there can be found trainers/coaches without ring fight(boxing) experience that produced world class boxers, why can’t it also be so in TJQ ?

The Greatest Boxing Trainers Who Never Fought | H&G Boxing

Angelo Dundee never had a professional fight. Cus D'Amato barely threw a punch in competition. Yet between them they produced Ali, Tyson, and Leonard. The…

www.honourandglory.co.uk

 

[MnemonicMike2 1]

AI answers my questions as the following.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tai Chi Push Hands (推手, Tuishou) develops a set of skills that are often misunderstood. Many people focus on the external movements, but the real value is in the attributes it develops. These attributes can be highly useful in combat if trained realistically and combined with striking, wrestling, and sparring.

1. Sensitivity (听劲, Ting Jin)
2. Balance Control (重心控制)
3. Yielding Without Collapsing (化劲, Hua Jin)
4. Structural Power (整劲, Whole-Body Power)
5. Timing (时机)
6. Relaxation Under Pressure (松, Song)
7. Distance and Positioning
8. Borrowing Force (借力)

By itself, it does not adequately train:

• Defending punches to the face
• Defending kicks
• Ground fighting
• Striking under pressure
• Adrenaline management
• Realistic resistance

To make push-hands skills combat-effective, practitioners should add:

1. Pad work
2. Striking drills
3. Clinch sparring
4. Wrestling or judo
5. Controlled free sparring

I did not know that the real experts gave the secrets to an AI.

 

[windwalker099158 6]

In boxing, speed bags, jumping rope, and running are all methods used to develop particular attributes. Yet nobody would suggest that performance in these exercises is a measure of someone’s boxing ability, nor are the exercises themselves methods of fighting.


The methods of development are shaped by the skills one intends to cultivate and how those skills are meant to be used. Consequently, a practitioner’s development evolves according to their understanding of those skills and their application.


Push hands can be understood in much the same way. It is a developmental method intended to cultivate specific skills according to the principles and intended usage of the practice.

 

[MnemonicMike2 1]

In boxing, speed bags, jumping rope, and running are all methods used to develop particular attributes. Yet nobody would suggest that performance in these exercises is a measure of someone’s boxing ability, nor are the exercises themselves methods of fighting.


The methods of development are shaped by the skills one intends to cultivate and how those skills are meant to be used. Consequently, a practitioner’s development evolves according to their understanding of those skills and their application.


Push hands can be understood in much the same way. It is a developmental method intended to cultivate specific skills according to the principles and intended usage of the practice.

I always understood that push hands was to train jin strength rather than normal strength. There are four directions of jin: Peng-up, Lu-toward the body, Ji-away from the body, An-down. Using jin is a different way of using the body; that's why they don't allow push hands training until a person can use jin forces in the empty-hand form. Push hands without jin is not really Taijiquan; it is something else.

 

[Same Trick102 3]

Today I visited Beixianghu park in Chiayi on my new G7. I bought it so I could go on more mountain hikes and train in the mountains. I found a Tai Chi group there. They were a Yang style group but they went very low in snake creeps down, some of the players had reasonably crisp kicks and they seemed to practice cloud hands properly, although what I mean by that can be left for later. So I asked them about push hands and they said, today the people who do push hands are in Kaohsiung for a push hands competition (it happens at the end of the month every month, apparently).

What a synchronicity, divinely almost, you have just come up with an push hands grading method and now almost immediately by “chance” get served to where you practically can introduce your idea , oil up your G7 and head for Kaohsiung