Reclaiming Tai Chi

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

It's difficult to discuss Taiji in abstract level. What does "whole body is a snake" mean?

A: One should treat his arm like a snake that can get into any small hole that your opponent may expose.
B: In TCC the whole body is a snake, or whatever metaphorical creature. ... So not really applicable to TCC, so not taught as explicit movements.

 

[Xue Sheng148 1]

Your statement here about fighting ability being somehow inextricably connected to push hands is just not accurate. Push hands is an exercise, a fun experience, a factor of a certain skill set. I don’t need push hands to use Tai Chi to fight. It might be a useful training tool, it might also give you false confidence if you never fight at full speed and full power with a truly resisting opponent that doesn’t respect your rules for “playing” push hands. Is your root strong enough to save you? Worry about that first.

Free style push hands the involves striking and take downs is closer to reality, but even then, it is not actually fighting.

Push hands is, however, helpful in a fight, if the concept is understood, especially if it ends up a bit of standup grappling. But i would recommend a good understanding of the 13 postures as well.

 

[windwalker099158 6]

Your statement here about fighting ability being somehow inextricably connected to push hands is just not accurate

An interesting statement.

Some thoughts.


What is commonly known as push hands is referred to differently in some lines to distinguish its original purpose from what it has largely become today.

In my line, closely associated with Wang Yongquan’s methods, we call it rubbing hands to emphasize the cultivation of specific skills through contact rather than pushing or competing with one another.


While some testing occurs within the exercise, the real test comes through freehand interaction with practitioners of other methods, where one discovers how well those skills have developed and can be applied.


The purpose is not to become good at the exercise itself, but to develop skills that extend beyond it.

 

[isshinryuronin48 47]

The purpose is not to become good at the exercise itself, but to develop skills that extend beyond it.

Great thought. Over time, developmental exercises can become an end unto itself. Just as a bureaucracy designed to develop and administer an organization evolves to being concerned with developing and maintaining itself as its main goal. This same phenomenon is seen with kata where its performance becomes the goal rather than developing the combat skills it was originally designed to do.

If AI continues in this trend, it will evolve to propagate itself, rather than provide the service intended as its main directive.

 

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

The normal Taiji training speed should be like this video - slow compressing and fast releasing.

 

[isshinryuronin48 47]

The normal Taiji training speed should be like this video - slow compressing and fast releasing.

Two questons:

There seems also to be a tightening of the body at the end of the fast release. Correct?
In combat, is the slow compressing speeded up while staying relaxed?

 

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

Two questons:

There seems also to be a tightening of the body at the end of the fast release. Correct?
In combat, is the slow compressing speeded up while staying relaxed?

IMO, to tight your body at the end of releasing is a must. You need to unify your body to take the counter force that come back from your opponent.

The slow compressing in that video is for training. In combat, you need fast compressing. In that video, each punch takes about 1 second. In combat, you don't have 1 second.

I believe the slow -> fast -> slow -> fast -> ... way of training is better than the constant speed training.

Use slow to bait -> use fast to finish.

 

[twocircles17 11]

It's difficult to discuss Taiji in abstract level. What does "whole body is a snake" mean?

A: One should treat his arm like a snake that can get into any small hole that your opponent may expose.
B: In TCC the whole body is a snake, or whatever metaphorical creature. ... So not really applicable to TCC, so not taught as explicit movements.

I think you are confusing your forums.

 

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

I think you are confusing your forums.

You can train your arm like a snake. I just don't know how you can train your whole body like a snake.

A: I train MA.
B: I don't train MA. I train something much higher level than MA.
A: ...

Any discussion after B's respond will be meaningless.

 

[Appledog63 36]

You can train your arm like a snake. I just don't know how you can train your whole body like a snake.

A: I train MA.
B: I don't train MA. I train something much higher level than MA.
A: ...

Any discussion after B's respond will be meaningless.

What does this have to do with a push hands rating system? I don't understand.

 

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

What does this have to do with a push hands rating system? I don't understand.

It's too easy for any Taiji discussion to go toward "abstract". I just give an example and hope this thread won't go toward that direction.

 

[Wing Woo Gar92 15]

An interesting statement.

Some thoughts.


What is commonly known as push hands is referred to differently in some lines to distinguish its original purpose from what it has largely become today.

In my line, closely associated with Wang Yongquan’s methods, we call it rubbing hands to emphasize the cultivation of specific skills through contact rather than pushing or competing with one another.


While some testing occurs within the exercise, the real test comes through freehand interaction with practitioners of other methods, where one discovers how well those skills have developed and can be applied.


The purpose is not to become good at the exercise itself, but to develop skills that extend beyond it.

I agree. I think it is taught/shown/played at too soon in general. The forest can be mistaken for the trees alone.

 

[Wing Woo Gar92 15]

An interesting statement.

Some thoughts.


What is commonly known as push hands is referred to differently in some lines to distinguish its original purpose from what it has largely become today.

In my line, closely associated with Wang Yongquan’s methods, we call it rubbing hands to emphasize the cultivation of specific skills through contact rather than pushing or competing with one another.


While some testing occurs within the exercise, the real test comes through freehand interaction with practitioners of other methods, where one discovers how well those skills have developed and can be applied.


The purpose is not to become good at the exercise itself, but to develop skills that extend beyond it.

Do you also practice San shou in your Tai Chi? How do you feel this fits in with your training? Tui Shou is fine and some fun but I think making it a sport or a competition is missing the point. IMO San Shou is more suited to competition if both parties really try to give each other trouble. In both cases It’s not a fight per se, although we are learning application it’s a bad idea to equate either one with fighting skill.

 

[Wing Woo Gar92 15]

The normal Taiji training speed should be like this video - slow compressing and fast releasing.

I disagree. I believe one should vary the speed of one’s form in training. Some days I go as slow as possible, some days as fast as possible. I do not vary my speed during the form, I pick a speed and stay with it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang158 188]

The purpose is not to become good at the exercise itself, but to develop skills that extend beyond it.

2 simple questions:

1. What kind of skills do you intend to develop in Taiji PH?
2. How do you intend to use those skills in combat?

 

[windwalker099158 6]

2 simple questions:

1. What kind of skills do you intend to develop in Taiji PH?
2. How do you intend to use those skills in combat?

You haven’t demonstrated any of the skills that others have shown through their practice. Why ask how those skills are used when you haven’t demonstrated that you can do them yourself?

 

[Wing Woo Gar92 15]

You haven’t demonstrated any of the skills that others have shown through their practice. Why ask how those skills are used when you haven’t demonstrated that you can do them yourself?

Hold on, that’s a tad bit disappointing, why not answer his questions?

 

[windwalker099158 6]

Hold on, that’s a tad bit disappointing, why not answer his questions?

It would only invite more questions about something he does not practice..
The point in answering would be ?

 

[Same Trick102 3]

Push hands or not, i see only benefits in taijiquan

 

[Same Trick102 3]

Some people may think that principle can map into technique without training.

In another forum, there is a discussion thread about "technique". Not sure if D is serious or just joking (I copy exactly the same words that D has said)..

A: Do you have the following techniques in your MA style?

- MT "flying knee",
- TKD "spin hook kick",
- Karate "flying side kick",
- BJJ "jump guard", and
- boxing "superman punch".

B: My Xingyi system doesn't have those.
C: My WC system doesn't have those.
D: They may well exist in the art u call Tai chi. Those all exist in Tai chi and many many more. Anyone who can't see those 5 basic techniques in Tai chi should not be talking about Tai chi. They are obvious and there at a basic level.

D is Down under