Dedication and Loyalty

[MissMoo]

Hi All. New face here - looking for some insights into how and why you train. That probably sounds a bit silly when I summarise it that briefly so let me explain.

I've been training for about 2 and a half years now and currently have my red belt. I'm very dedicated and particularly passionate about poomsae. However, as I've progressed, the support and tuition from my school is just not providing me with what I need. Interestingly I was reading another posters thread here about watching YouTube videos etc, for tips and training....that's where I spend much of my time.

At the end of last month at my last grading I was utterly disillusioned and have begun shopping around for training elsewhere. However, I can't escape a feeling of disloyalty to my original school, even though I can easily justify why I feel a need to shop around for better training.

This isn't really a WWYD post, so much as a What Do you Do? Do you/have you stuck with the same school, as a point of loyalty and sourced the extra knowledge and training from elsewhere to supplement? Have you put yourself first and moved to another school that you believed could offer better? Do you still feel you made the correct decision?

 

[hoshin1600]

I have moved on to other schools and systems a few times. My advise if you leave is to make sure it is on good terms with your teacher. It's not easy to do but it's the right thing to do and over time you will find its better for you too. I don't feel it's about loyalty as much as its about relationships. The teacher/ student bond can be quite deep. One of my biggest regrets in life is leaving one teacher and then having him pass away and only saw him after he passed in the hospital. Leaving the school was the right thing for me to do but I was too young and pig headed to realize the value of the relationship that existed.

 

[Danny T]

Have you spoken with the instructor/s/shool owner concerning your feeling of not getting what you need?

 

[ks - learning to fly]

I don't know how much help my post will be since I've been at the same
school since I started almost 6 years ago and fortunately - am at an
amazing school - could not be happier. I would recommend speaking
to your Instructor though.. I have seen a lot of students at your rank
get frustrated because they seem to 'plateau' where they feel like
they're not improving or making progress as fast as they used to.. Do you
think maybe this is part of your frustration..? Just a thought..

 

[MissMoo]

Have you spoken with the instructor/s/shool owner concerning your feeling of not getting what you need?

Myself and another student have asked several times for more help/different coaching, there was even talk about them starting up some 1-1/1-2 sessions, which would have been awesome but none of it has ever come to fruition. Essentially I have had no useful poomsae coaching in the last 6-8 months and 95% of the improvements I've made have been from work outside of class. Another big bone of contention is the self-defence we are taught which is just plain poor. I now train in Hapkido too and it just highlights how ineffective the instruction we receive at Taekwondo is.

I think, honestly, as you say @hoshin1600, it is the right decision to move on, but I need to handle the move with kid gloves. I'm actually headed over there later today to chat with them, so wish me luck

 

[WaterGal]

It sounds like you know what you need to do, but that doesn't make it easy. It's too bad that you're not getting what you need there and have to move on. Making a big change like that and leaving people you know is hard. Good luck in finding a new school!

 

[Jenna]

Hi All. New face here - looking for some insights into how and why you train. That probably sounds a bit silly when I summarise it that briefly so let me explain.

I've been training for about 2 and a half years now and currently have my red belt. I'm very dedicated and particularly passionate about poomsae. However, as I've progressed, the support and tuition from my school is just not providing me with what I need. Interestingly I was reading another posters thread here about watching YouTube videos etc, for tips and training....that's where I spend much of my time.

At the end of last month at my last grading I was utterly disillusioned and have begun shopping around for training elsewhere. However, I can't escape a feeling of disloyalty to my original school, even though I can easily justify why I feel a need to shop around for better training.

This isn't really a WWYD post, so much as a What Do you Do? Do you/have you stuck with the same school, as a point of loyalty and sourced the extra knowledge and training from elsewhere to supplement? Have you put yourself first and moved to another school that you believed could offer better? Do you still feel you made the correct decision?

If your hair stylist never ever quite gave you the look you wanted, I wonder would you keep returning to them through loyalty? I do not mean to trivialise a difficult decision and but you do not sound at all happy here and I would be concerned that this dissatisfaction I know can lead to a martial artist becoming demotivated.. so please do not feel you are doing anyone a wrong by leaving..

If your school or instructor is unprepared to change or adapt and provide you - and you are a paying customer irrespective of whether it is a MA school or a hairstylist - with the service you demand then what is the normal way of these things? stick around because we feel sorry for a business?? No, businesses have their chance and if they do not come up to scratch that is ok and but we surely vote with our feet no?

I hope you trust your instinct.. that is all that can ever be trusted fully.. You have my wishes and but perhaps you can see this as an experience you can learn from to grow even stronger in your self rather than a disappointment.. I hope so Jxxx

 

[Earl Weiss]

There is loyalty, and there is blind loyalty.

Kudos to you if you have found that what you want is better offered somewhere else. It will take courage to move on, but you need to do what makes you happy.

 

[Buka]

Welcome to Martial Talk, MissMoo, nice to have you.

Life is a continuing struggle. But it's a great thing to be alive.
And maybe the best things in life to have are choices. Sure beats not having any choice in matters.

You should take care of YOU. Besides, you can always go back to a school. If the school wouldn't want you back, you shouldn't have been there in the first place. You're not burning bridges, you're just building new ones.

Best of luck in your journey. Go have fun.

 

[Manny]

Hi All. New face here - looking for some insights into how and why you train. That probably sounds a bit silly when I summarise it that briefly so let me explain.

I've been training for about 2 and a half years now and currently have my red belt. I'm very dedicated and particularly passionate about poomsae. However, as I've progressed, the support and tuition from my school is just not providing me with what I need. Interestingly I was reading another posters thread here about watching YouTube videos etc, for tips and training....that's where I spend much of my time.

At the end of last month at my last grading I was utterly disillusioned and have begun shopping around for training elsewhere. However, I can't escape a feeling of disloyalty to my original school, even though I can easily justify why I feel a need to shop around for better training.

This isn't really a WWYD post, so much as a What Do you Do? Do you/have you stuck with the same school, as a point of loyalty and sourced the extra knowledge and training from elsewhere to supplement? Have you put yourself first and moved to another school that you believed could offer better? Do you still feel you made the correct decision?

Hi, I am considering fleying my actual dojang and organization, and yes it's hard figthing against the loyalty thing, but we must to remeber that loyalty travels in oposite way, my sabonim leave my city and the new boss (sabonim) is something diferent from my sabonim so I will leave sonner or latter.

Don't feel guilty, go ahed and see what is bert for you.

M;anny

 

[granfire]

Loyalty is a two way street.

I have seen loyalty blow up in the loyal follower's face.
I mean, 'fork over the money or else' bad.

I do dearly love my Sabum and his wife, but I would not train under them again (not because of what they did....the other loyalty thing, organization wise...)

If you have not received coaching for half a year (that is $$$ for the rest of the world), move on.
The school isn't loyal to you.
(the organization pulled a few fast ones, losing a few good people in the process. I am not Privy to all the details, but let's just say their word was no good! Walk away when things are fishy! This is not Feudal Korea or Japan!)

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Another big bone of contention is the self-defence we are taught which is just plain poor. I now train in Hapkido too and it just highlights how ineffective the instruction we receive at Taekwondo is.

If self-defense is one of your priorities, and this TKD school isn't providing it then you should absolutely move on to one that provides you with what is effective. If that is Hapkido then so be it. Make sure that what is taught, wherever your training is actually real self-defense. Ask about the experience of the instructor. Is he/she teaching from experience or theory. There is a difference.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[Gnarlie]

I would say if you are not getting what you feel you need, then move. But know that every place has strengths and weaknesses. You may never find a place to fulfil your every need.

That said, if you are doing poomsae research on your own and it seems like you know more than they do, could be time to go.

Keep doing your own research and practice outside of training and whatever gaps they have won't be an issue.

 

[IcemanSK]

I agree with Master Earl Weiss on this one. You're looking for something that your school/master is not willing or able to give you. At the end of the day, that's okay. You have a desire and passion for a part of Taekwondo that can be found elsewhere. Leave on good terms, by all means.

I wish you the best in your continued journey.

 

[Jaeimseu]

If your needs aren't being met, there's no reason to stay "loyal." However, make sure you're being realistic with your expectations. It's easy to think you know more than you do about what's best for your training and it's also common to hit plateaus in your development and be in satisfied with your progress. Give yourself an honest self-assessment and if you determine a change is necessary, then change.

 

[Drose427]

Jaeimseu made a very good point in staying realistic.

For example, there are trips/sweeps that apply very well to SD against an average joe swinging haymakers, but are lower probability on someone with moderate training who are mindful of things like positioning and balance.

how this applies to you and your TKD + Hapkido training, things you do in TKD that work may not work as well against a folks with training in a style with a lot of grappling like Hapkido.

Thatt doesnt make your TKD SD poor. it could very well still be effective and rooted in reality. But, being unused to working with grappling or simply having a gap in training focus there.

Of course, we dont know exactly what your training is, only you know that. Just something to bear in mind!

You arent insulting your instructors ability to train students or his class if you choose to leave. In your OP, you stated a big reason to train was forms, if thats what you enjoy and wish to train/compete in you should find a school that can accommodate that better.

Just talk to your instructor, he may be able to give you more attention if you bring it to his attention.
Heck, if he can't odds are who knows of ( or can at least find) a school that can give you exactly what youre looking for.

 

[oftheherd1]

If you are certain your best interests lie elsewhere, you should seek a place where you are happier with the instruction, and feel you are learning more of what you want.

However, as has been mentioned above, don't get discouraged because you have hit a plateau. I did that several times in TKD. I stuck with it and all of a sudden one day I realized I had progressed after all. Worse is if you only think you are better than you are. Of course, I have no way to guess if that is so or not. But I really worry if you think you are getting better instruction from videos online. Also, don't sell TKD too short too quick. If all you do is block, kick and punch, you should be really good at it in a SD situation.

As already suggested, discuss it with other students and teachers. Tell them how you think you are not progressing, and why. See what they say. They may be able to tell you of like experiences and how they overcame them. Is red belt the last before BB? Be sure you won't later regret not attaining that before moving on. But if you are too discouraged with where you are, maybe it is time to look elsewhere. Hapkido is a fine art to study.

 

[WaterGal]

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but my experience with plateauing is that people get to a place where they feel like they're not improving, or even getting worse - that everything suddenly seems harder. And it's not because their skill has plateaued, but really it's because their understanding of what the technique should be has improved.

Before, they learned to do the technique "okay", but couldn't the difference between "okay" and "good", so they thought they were doing really well. Now they can see the difference between "okay" and "good", but they're still struggling with being able to perform at the "good" level, so they feel like their technique has actually gotten worse.

I'm not sure if that's what's going on with the OP. My gut instinct says that her instruction may have been sub-par all along, and now she's gotten to a point where she can now see the difference when she compares how she's been taught with what is being shown in training videos, and is getting frustrated. But I could be off-base there.

 

[MissMoo]

Thanks everyone for all of your input; there's value in just about everything everyone has said. @WaterGal you make a very good point - you need to be so far down the track before you can understand that the instruction you've received had some major flaws. That's not to say it was worthless, of course it wasn't, but I'm beyond the point now where I can just accept it.

To those who mentioned plateauing; I fully agree - certainly in my kicking and sparring, things are progressing very slowly and developing that understanding of the subtleties of technique that will bring power, speed and control are certainly a slow-burn. But in terms of poomsae, there have just been some glaring holes and errors..so many things I'm now having to unlearn and relearn which is just no good.

Well its been an interesting few days. The place I live suffers from 'small town syndrome' in that everyone knows everyone, so finding a new school is hard without everyone knowing your business. I had gone down to my current school to have a chat with one of the senior instructors. I watched her teach a class (and got frustrated at the things she was letting slip) then tried to have a conversation but she got diverted onto listening to some other guy so I just gave up and left with a smile. I'd decided to go for a training session with a guy who used to teach for my current school, but who successfully set up his own academy about a year ago. I've always had a lot of time for him; while poomsae isn't his 'thing' (this probably sounds stupid given my motivation), his fitness, kicking drills, sparring coaching etc are excellent but, also, he now has a world poomsae champion who advises him and runs regular poomsae coaching for his students. Anyway, the training went especially well, we chatted some and I agreed that I would start training regularly with him. Lo and behold I got a message from him the very next day asking if I would be interested to coach for him for his junior belts and, in exchange, I would train with his instructing team! It was a huge curveball but, the more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to give it a go.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I asked the same question to a tournament competitor (late teens) who I recognized while he was working at a big box sports store.

He mentioned that he was changing to a more sparring-focussed school and I asked about loyalty. His comment was that the previous school has no right to be upset...it's him paying the money. I thought that was an interesting point - the lessons aren't being given freely. It's a business, and that makes you a consumer.