Daito ryu has a Tai Chi lineage?

[elder999]

I don't have any experience with JKD and I'm not trying to imply otherwise. I have a semester's worth of experience with Foil fencing in college phys-ed, so I've got a little bit there.

Whatever is there, is it really as a result of influence, or is it more coincidentally similar? I'm asking in all honesty. If you can describe the JKD lead hand position and the philosophy of the intercepting fist, and explain how that was influenced by fencing, I would be interested.

If one hasn't studied the method, I just question how much influence it can have.

The Tao of Jeet Kune Do
"...It is a constant, rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slightest closing which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

Sports Illustrated: Book of Fencing "It is a constant rapid shifting of ground, seeking the slight closing of distance, which will greatly increase the chances of hitting the opponent."

A key principle in fencing, the stop-hit, is pretty much what "Jeet Kune Do," the way of the intercepting fist, might take its name from.

I couldn't find a JKD stop-hit that wasn't somewhat goofy, but the principle is the same.

The idea that you can set up your opponent so that you will be able to intercept him in his most vulnerable state, when attacking, is central to the work of fencing authors Aldo Nadi and Julio Martinez Castello, both of whom are quoted heavily in Bruce Lee’s Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Peter Lee, Bruce's brother, was a (champion?) fencer in Hong Kong, so he was exposed to fencing there, perhaps in Seattle as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

WOW!!!

a completely silly and utterly rediculous thread has become very interesting

You can see a similar intercept in many Chinese Martial Arts styles…not the same…but similar. Xingyiquan will attack (intercept) an attack, you can see the possibility in Taiji stances, Bagua Stances and even in Aikido stances

 

[Chris Parker]

And, to keep that idea going, within Japanese arts, we have concepts like Sen no Sen, Go no Sen, and Sen Sen no Sen, which are timing concepts. In short, Go no Sen is acting after the attack (or the initiative), or a defensive action; Sen no Sen is timing at the same time as the attack (within swordsmanship, the idea of evasive cutting fits in here); and Sen Sen no Sen is attacking before the initiative is taken (note: that doesn't mean attacking, it means heading off an attack before it's formed).

 

[jasonbrinn]

WOW!!!

My completely silly and utterly rediculous posts have become very interesting

You can see a similar intercept in many Chinese Martial Arts styles…not the same…but similar. Xingyiquan will attack (intercept) an attack, you can see the possibility in Taiji stances, Bagua Stances and even in Aikido stances

fixed it

 

[Chris Parker]

Yep. Good, Jason. That's not how you end up with bad rep and complaining about it over and over again... nicely done.

You didn't have anything to actually add, then?

 

[jasonbrinn]

Yep. Good, Jason.

THANKS!!!

That's not how you end up with bad rep

No, you end up with bad rep by introducing new ideas and asking people to step outside of their "tried and true" lofty knowledge to see if anyone missed anything.

and complaining about it over and over again

Have you been complaining again, I haven't.

nicely done.

THANKS!!!

You didn't have anything to actually add, then?

No I figured why not follow in the Grandmaster Senior 15K club members trusty footsteps by belittle someone instead of talking about ideas in a constructive way - kinda like I learned from you here how to break apart any post in such a way as to completely obliterate the point,...mate.

[Sorry for those putting forth great posts in this thread as I am a little ticked as to why some people here seem to be able to stomp around for no reason with nothing said about it]

 

[Chris Parker]

Jason, seriously, get over it. You have produced no evidence whatsoever, have been able to counter exactly zero argument against your ideas, and are now getting all pissy and attacking other members. That's what you get the poor rep for, mate, your behaviour, not your ideas.

As far as not complaining about it, might I remind you of...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?100618-Why-has-my-profile-been-marked

And, just a week ago...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?103621-Reputation

So I say again, get over it. Look to your behaviour, or accept that your going to have to deal with the repercussions of your actions.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Jason, seriously, get over it. You have produced no evidence whatsoever, have been able to counter exactly zero argument against your ideas, and are now getting all pissy and attacking other members. That's what you get the poor rep for, mate, your behaviour, not your ideas.

As far as not complaining about it, might I remind you of...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?100618-Why-has-my-profile-been-marked

And, just a week ago...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?103621-Reputation

So I say again, get over it. Look to your behaviour, or accept that your going to have to deal with the repercussions of your actions.

Chris - loosen up the hakama bro. I was joking with good ole Bruce since he was PLAINLY joking about this thread being ridiculous and silly.

I started the thread to see what people thought about the idea of a Daito - Tai Chi linkage - nothing more. I have gotten a lot of great responses as to what people think about the idea. I appreciate the time and consideration of those posting Yes or No. I just have a hard time with people who take the time to respond to something to say that it is ridiculous (which to me seems pretty ridiculous).

Thanks again to everyone (even Chris!)


*Note: Sooner or later you will see my humor as you get to know me through posts and stop taking them so serious

 

[Chris Parker]

I really don't think Xue was joking when he said this thread was ridiculous, Jason... and if you want to be taken as joking, I'd suggest using emoticons, smilies, maybe even just putting "jk!" when you think you're being funny, because that's really not the way it comes across.

As to you starting the thread to see what people thought of the idea, you got that straight away, and continued to get it through the entire thread. You kept arguing, claimed to have some evidence, but when pressed never came up with anything other than bad history and the fact that you can't actually do any research yourself, and are relying on others to do the reading for you.

But again, if you want us to get used to your "humour", I'd look to the way you present it. So far, it hasn't helped you.

 

[jasonbrinn]

I really don't think Xue was joking when he said this thread was ridiculous, Jason... and if you want to be taken as joking, I'd suggest using emoticons, smilies, maybe even just putting "jk!" when you think you're being funny, because that's really not the way it comes across.

As to you starting the thread to see what people thought of the idea, you got that straight away, and continued to get it through the entire thread. You kept arguing, claimed to have some evidence, but when pressed never came up with anything other than bad history and the fact that you can't actually do any research yourself, and are relying on others to do the reading for you.

But again, if you want us to get used to your "humour", I'd look to the way you present it. So far, it hasn't helped you.

 

[Chris Parker]

Okay... so nothing of worth to add to your own thread? Well, thanks for stopping by...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sorry but not once did I think you were joking and there was nothing in any of your post prior to this that would have led me to believe you were.

There are BIG differences between face to face conversations and online conversations and you need to do things like Chris suggested in order to avoid confusion

As to the rep....why is this person trying to ruin my thread and like it or leave it alone... you post things that are completely bogus, especially about things CMA then I will respond. You use bogus history to support your silly claims and I will respond. You did not respond to multiple posts I made here and you made no effort to let me or anyone know this was not serious until pretty much all of your bogus claims were shown to be incredibly wrong on both sides of the issue. So at this point I am of the belief that you started out seriously but in the face of way to much proof to the contrary you back peddled, changed your story and now claim it was not serious.

So bottom-line here my back peddling friend... I don't like it, and if it applies to me, I won't leave it alone.

You want to now go off and claim Daito ryu has a Muay Thai lineage I will leave it alone but I am betting there are more than a few in the Muay Thai section who won’t

 

[Xue Sheng]

fixed it

Yep...just as I thought.... I pity your students...assuming you are not lying about that too

 

[Xue Sheng]

No, you end up with bad rep by introducing new ideas and asking people to step outside of their "tried and true" lofty knowledge to see if anyone missed anything.

You are not introducing new ideas...your making up stories about things that never happened and that is called fiction... not introducing new idea

If you say Daito ryu was started by elfin folk in middle earth it is a new statement but not a new idea to be taken seriously and most certainly not truth

 

[jasonbrinn]

Yep...just as I thought.... I pity your students...assuming you are not lying about that too

Nice. I am sure NO ONE will say anything to you about making such a mean statement, or the fact that you aggressively attacked the "idea" of my thread from the beginning.

The FACT is that I do have proof of "a" linkage and when I AM ready I will publish it. I was asking others for their opinions. I am not back peddling my friend it is only that after telling you more than once that I am interested in hearing others opinions and that I am not reprinting my book here I really have nothing else left to say.

 

[Chris Parker]

Jason, how on earth could you be hearing opinions of something that has no evidence presented, goes against everything established, and you refuse to put any evidence down in support of? You really might as well have asked for opinions that karate originated in Greece, because you think there's similar postures on old vases without anything else presented.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Jason, how on earth could you be hearing opinions of something that has no evidence presented, goes against everything established, and you refuse to put any evidence down in support of? You really might as well have asked for opinions that karate originated in Greece, because you think there's similar postures on old vases without anything else presented.

Pankration?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Nice. I am sure NO ONE will say anything to you about making such a mean statement, or the fact that you aggressively attacked the "idea" of my thread from the beginning.

The FACT is that I do have proof of "a" linkage and when I AM ready I will publish it. I was asking others for their opinions. I am not back peddling my friend it is only that after telling you more than once that I am interested in hearing others opinions and that I am not reprinting my book here I really have nothing else left to say.

Truth hurts doesn't it... the FACT is you have fantasy/fiction

I asked you direct questions and you did not respond I posted provable history and you ignored it because it did not fit the fantasy you are trying to throw out there. I have an idea...why don't you wander on over to "The Rum Soaked Fist" page and put this out there and see how that goes for you....

You need to read my above post about what would constitute a new idea. Making stuff up about history is not a new idea

You can't read or speak Japanese you can't read or speak Chinese, your dates are way off your understanding of history form wither country is almost entirely wrong and you change your POV over and over. And in response to seriuous questions and post appears to be childish videos.... says a lot about you actually

 

[Chris Parker]

Pankration?

Are you deliberately being obtuse, Jason?

 

[jasonbrinn]

Are you deliberately being obtuse, Jason?

Has anyone ever wondered why Ueshiba went to China and why he studied the art that he did?