chan su jing anyone?

[jasonbrinn]

I am looking for any and all info I can find on chan su jing and YES I have got just about everything indexed online already.
Any insights, comments, stories, etc.


Thank you,


Jason Brinn

 

[Xue Sheng]

Do you mean Chan si jin aka silk reeling energy?

And what exactly are you trying to figure out or do?

 

[jasonbrinn]

Do you mean Chan si jin aka silk reeling energy?

Yes, I have seen it spelled many ways - is there a specific proper way to refer to it? I do also mean that I am interested in both the exercises and the concept/philosophy/physics.


Thank you,


Jason Brinn

 

[Flying Crane]

I'm not a taiji guy, so take what I say with a hunk of salt.

It's my understanding that silk reeling refers to drawing the threads of silk out of the coccoon woven by the silk worms, and harvesting that thread for use in making textiles. I've never seen the actual silk harvesting, but apparently there is some method that has a repetitious back and forth movement as the threads are teased out of the jumble and wound onto a spool.

There are "silk reeling exercises" in taiji that apparently resemble the silk harvesting movement. In taiji, this exercise is meant to help you understand and develop bringing power from the root stance. I don't really know what it looks like in taiji, nor how it works. I only have a vague concept of the idea. I also suspect there may be more than one "silk reeling exercise", depending on which taiji one practices.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not a taiji guy, so take what I say with a hunk of salt.

It's my understanding that silk reeling refers to drawing the threads of silk out of the coccoon woven by the silk worms, and harvesting that thread for use in making textiles. I've never seen the actual silk harvesting, but apparently there is some method that has a repetitious back and forth movement as the threads are teased out of the jumble and wound onto a spool.

There are "silk reeling exercises" in taiji that apparently resemble the silk harvesting movement. In taiji, this exercise is meant to help you understand and develop bringing power from the root stance. I don't really know what it looks like in taiji, nor how it works. I only have a vague concept of the idea. I also suspect there may be more than one "silk reeling exercise", depending on which taiji one practices.

Yup that about covers it. The only thing I will add is some call it silk pulling and say it is nothing like silk reeling....however I do feel they are the same

Silk reeling is big in Chen style but not at all existant in my flavor of Yang

 

[mograph]

My understanding is twofold: 1. The gross movement (and its variations) is meant as a foundation for many movements from the Chen bare hand sets, and 2. The reference to silk reeling describes the regular speed (no jerk) of the movement (to avoid breaking the imaginary silk), achieved by moving all parts of the body in sync, driven by the feet and controlled by the waist in traditional taijiquan fashion.

 

[blindsage]

My understanding is that no matter how you talk about it, read about, or see videos on it, you really need to see and more importantly feel it in person to understand it.

 

[oaktree]

Best way to learn silk reeling is to practice it.
Silk reeling is the foundation in my opinion
to everything in Chen taijiquan. In laojia you have
Many silk reeling patterns.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Best way to learn silk reeling is to practice it.
Silk reeling is the foundation in my opinion
to everything in Chen taijiquan. In laojia you have
Many silk reeling patterns.

YES I believe this too - I would love to learn this form and I am afraid that video is my only chance at the moment. The high level aiki stuff in JMAs mimics these movements are teach the same fundamentals.

thank you,

Jason Brinn

 

[mograph]

I would love to learn this form and I am afraid that video is my only chance at the moment.

For your own sake, please don't try to learn this from video. The essence is not in the visible movements, it's in the subtleties of weight change, how you push against the ground, how you unify your body without focusing on the hands, where the movement is initiated ... that sort of thing. All of those can not be learned from visual inspection of a video. In fact, it's more likely that if you do learn to imitate a video, once you do get to a teacher, he will spend most of your time correcting the bad habits of force, sensitivity and intention you picked up from watching the video without having had a proper base beforehand.

I see this so often with tai chi: people imitating the choreography but having no concpet of the unification of action, the distribution of force, the direction of intention (ground to legs to waist to torso to hand) and all that sort of thing. It may be the result of video viewing or a teacher who values external form over internal principles. It ends up being an imitation of tai chi. After a few years of that, some are uncorrectable, as they've spent so much time valuing and practicing this external form, believing it the key to success, they have grown insensitive to the subtleties of internal sensitivity.

My 2 cents.

 

[oaktree]

It took me a while with my teacher having to put his hands
On my waist to move it correctly, also he moved my hands for me.
I think for hours I was like a puppet. Turn left to go right what the hell
Does that mean? Now I know. Dont move left to right "back in "
Silk reeling is a lot of work.

 

[GaryR]

I am looking for any and all info I can find on chan su jing and YES I have got just about everything indexed online already.
Any insights, comments, stories, etc.


Thank you,


Jason Brinn

Of course I don't no what info you have already; but here is a good description from Tim C.:

"silk reeling energy' is common in most all the Northern Chinese martial arts. It
refers to moving the torso and limbs in circular, spiral or twisting patterns.
At a basic level (striking for example), the greater the speed, the greater the
potential force of impact. In the body, this translates to combining and
coordinating the overall movement of the body so that the combined power of
several types of movement is many times greater than a single type of movement
alone. For example, if I hold my arm straight out ahead of me and walk directly
into you I will hit with x amount of force. If I combine the forward movement
with a rotation of the torso (y amount of force) as I hit you, the force will be
much greater (x and y combined). The method of silk reeling is to combine the
many rotational forces of the body into one coordinated flow (the rotational
power of the legs with the hips with the torso with the arms), resulting in an
exponentially greater force than could be achieved by using one part of the body
alone. Another advantage of silk reeling power applied to striking is that the
spiralling power issued bores into the opponent's body (just like the bullet of
a rifle penetrates more readily than a musket ball). When applied to throwing,
the same types of rotational body movement allow the thrower to put more force
into an opponent from point blank range (which is where most grappling occurs).
In addition, people are more able to resist straight pushing and pulling
motions, and are easily put off their base when twisted. Joints are much more
resistant to straight bending and stretching forces than they are to twisting or
rotational forces. So silk reeling applied to Chin Na and joint locking
techniques makes them more efficient. Twisting the joints of the extremities is
the only practical way to chain lock into an opponent's center for techniques
which push inward. Defensively, twisting to neutralize an incoming blow
('rolling with a punch' for exmple) is the only method of avoiding harm while
maintaining the ability for simultaneous counter attack (for example, you push
my left shoulder, I rotate my torso with the push, neutralizing the incoming
force while simultaneously striking back with my right hand. These types of
techniques are only possible when rotational movement is applied). Health wise,
rotational movements of the joints are invaluable in maintaining range of motion
and proper lubrication. In addition, twisting the muscles (and internal organs)
helps to 'squeeze' the blood and fluids out and allow fresh blood in. Circular
or rotational movements also greatly improve flexibility, and the strength of
the connective tissue. "

More brief google-fu found these somewhat typical Chen silk reeling vids;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnePBBnt1kc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eltVM5A89lM&feature=related

Hope that helps,

Best,

Gary