Daedo electronic hogu distorts original concept of full contact kyorugi

[mastercole]

This past weekend I watched a lot of matches at the NCTA National Collegiate Taekwondo Championships in Boston. This event doubled as the team trails to select the US National Collegiate Team going to the World University Taekwondo Championships in Korea, later on this year. There were a good number of excellent fighters at this event. This was the first time I got to observe the Dado electronic hogu in elite level fights, up close.

I can tell you that based on what I observed, I am NOT in favor of this hogu. I watch elite level fighters roll over perfect round kicks, striking at 90 degrees that were so powerful and explosive they not only folded over the other fighter, but lifted them off their feet, and, ----------- no score. This was not one or two times, it was dozens of times.

Fighters what were successful in scoring on this hogu, had to hit at 90 degrees, but with a very shallow penetrating "snap" or slap of the foot.

This forced a number of female fighters to resort to the old school points style of sparring. Holding one leg up in the air, sliding along on one leg jabbing and slapping at the other girls face, 4, 5, 6 or more times hoping to bump their head for the 3 point score. It was rare to see powerful blows in the female matches I watched. Several female matches were won this way.

Several of the men's matches were backward. The powerful striker was not awarded points on this hogu, the one who could smack it the right way, and of course touch the head with the foot.

I did see a lot of fighters going for full force body punches, and scoring. Some felt they had a better chances at convincing the judges with a big body punch then smacking the hogu just right with their foot.

 

[puunui]

This past weekend I watched a lot of matches at the NCTA National Collegiate Taekwondo Championships in Boston. This event doubled as the team trails to select the US National Collegiate Team going to the World University Taekwondo Championships in Korea, later on this year. There were a good number of excellent fighters at this event. This was the first time I got to observe the Dado electronic hogu in elite level fights, up close.

I can tell you that based on what I observed, I am NOT in favor of this hogu. I watch elite level fighters roll over perfect round kicks, striking at 90 degrees that were so powerful and explosive they not only folded over the other fighter, but lifted them off their feet, and, ----------- no score. This was not one or two times, it was dozens of times.

I heard the same thing about NCTA Nationals.

 

[Manny]

So what we can do? I've been seen this kind of post about the electronic hogus, no matter La Just, Daedo, Adidas, etc. I saw the adidas electronic hogus last year in BB competition locally and state, even I was center referee when fightes were using this adidas hogus and see they were incosistent. Something I would like to tell you, Guillermo "MEMO" Perez the Mexican Gold Medallist in Olimpics at Beijing 2008 has retired from compettion a few weeks ago because afther the olimpics he could not adjust to the electronic hogus he used in national and international competitions, he simply got tired of fighting not against other men or countries but against the electronic hogus.

I also have seen full body kicks that not score and simple snap kicks that score.

Manny

 

[troubleenuf]

Its the nature of the beast guys. In order to win you have to change to adapt to the rules, the judges and yes the scoring system. Its not going away, you just have to spend the time with the system to learn how to score on it. I hate a system that dictates the style of fighting but that is were we are at.

 

[mastercole]

So what we can do? I've been seen this kind of post about the electronic hogus, no matter La Just, Daedo, Adidas, etc. I saw the adidas electronic hogus last year in BB competition locally and state, even I was center referee when fightes were using this adidas hogus and see they were incosistent. Something I would like to tell you, Guillermo "MEMO" Perez the Mexican Gold Medallist in Olimpics at Beijing 2008 has retired from compettion a few weeks ago because afther the olimpics he could not adjust to the electronic hogus he used in national and international competitions, he simply got tired of fighting not against other men or countries but against the electronic hogus.

I also have seen full body kicks that not score and simple snap kicks that score.

Manny

We own a set of Adidas electronic hogu and we think they are the best out there. Adidas reads air pressure, to it reads force, and it gives you feed back that tells you exactly what level of force you generated. Adidas hogu keeps the match like it was originally intended, score only full force, abrupt displacement blows.

 

[puunui]

Its the nature of the beast guys. In order to win you have to change to adapt to the rules, the judges and yes the scoring system. Its not going away, you just have to spend the time with the system to learn how to score on it. I hate a system that dictates the style of fighting but that is were we are at.

We have a daedo system here and the competitors who went up use it regularly. The way it was described to me, it sounded like the equipment was malfunctioning. But who knows.

Also, certain referees were giving too many kyong go during the matches. In one team trial final, the referee was giving kyong go to both players. The match was finally stopped with one minute left in the third round, one side got a dq on kyong go and was still winning by two points, and the other side had maybe one kyong go left.

 

[mastercole]

Its the nature of the beast guys. In order to win you have to change to adapt to the rules, the judges and yes the scoring system. Its not going away, you just have to spend the time with the system to learn how to score on it. I hate a system that dictates the style of fighting but that is were we are at.

It is certainly where it's at currently, but, if we don't feel it is right, we should act to change it. I can't believe with the technology that is out there an accurate hogu can not be made.

I think it should measure force over the course of the round. At the end of the round, add up the total force and see who won the round, of course adding in deductions. Winner is declared by best out of three rounds.

 

[mastercole]

We have a daedo system here and the competitors who went up use it regularly. The way it was described to me, it sounded like the equipment was malfunctioning. But who knows.

Also, certain referees were giving too many kyong go during the matches. In one team trial final, the referee was giving kyong go to both players. The match was finally stopped with one minute left in the third round, one side got a dq on kyong go and was still winning by two points, and the other side had maybe one kyong go left.

Yes, I watch that entire match. Two very good fighters. It was frustrating to thing the Daedo hogu had such a huge influence on the game.

 

[puunui]

I think it should measure force over the course of the round. At the end of the round, add up the total force and see who won the round, of course adding in deductions. Winner is declared by best out of three rounds.

Daedo measures force as well, but I think something was wrong with the equipment. But the total force concept is something I never thought of before. Certainly that would be a fair assessment. Sort of like the video game street fighter applied to matches.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

It is certainly where it's at currently, but, if we don't feel it is right, we should act to change it. I can't believe with the technology that is out there an accurate hogu can not be made.

I think it should measure force over the course of the round. At the end of the round, add up the total force and see who won the round, of course adding in deductions. Winner is declared by best out of three rounds.

First of all, Ive never seen electronic scoring so dont understand it. BUT, I must agree with you, surely in this day and age they can make a hogu that just has a set measure of impact required, it shouldnt matter what angle the leg is, or what type of kick etc, surely it can just feel the pressure required and score. It sounds like something you could make in your own garage with a tiny bit of electronics experience and a basic tool kit. As an outsider looking in it really does seem ridiculous.

 

[Bagehot]

We own a set of Adidas electronic hogu and we think they are the best out there. Adidas reads air pressure, to it reads force, and it gives you feed back that tells you exactly what level of force you generated. Adidas hogu keeps the match like it was originally intended, score only full force, abrupt displacement blows.

We have been working with the Adidas equipment for three years, I find them consistent and straightforward.

-- Bagehot

 

[Bagehot]

I think it should measure force over the course of the round. At the end of the round, add up the total force and see who won the round, of course adding in deductions. Winner is declared by best out of three rounds.

That's an interesting concept, Al. In some ways, better than points.

-- Bagehot

 

[mastercole]

Daedo measures force as well, but I think something was wrong with the equipment. But the total force concept is something I never thought of before. Certainly that would be a fair assessment. Sort of like the video game street fighter applied to matches.

I did not know that. My son went out to Colorado a few weeks back and trained on the Daedo hogu with Chris Martinez (Elite). Full force blows were hard to score. A quick smack on the surface seemed to score a point every time. That was consistent with what I saw at the event.

 

[mastercole]

We have been working with the Adidas equipment for three years, I find them consistent and straightforward.

-- Bagehot

I think it was a major mistake not to select Adidas electronic hogu, if we must have an electronic hogu.

 

[mastercole]

That's an interesting concept, Al. In some ways, better than points.

-- Bagehot

We had been using it at the dojang and watching how it measured force for each blow. Once that force number reaches the threshold number, a point pops up. Made good sense. But then my one son said why can't they just write a program to tally up the total force at the end of each round and score like that. The first thing I though was how in line with self defense that was.

 

[Gorilla]

All the things that have been stated above are correct. This why we started training in karate to help adapt to the system. Change or or die.

The adidas system is a perfect system for my daughter because she has great power game.

 

[Cyriacus]

I recall predicting something like this.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I recall predicting something like this.

You're not alone

 

[ATC]

Here we go again! Seems I've heard these same statements just not to long ago with another hogu brand that is now gone. Hmmm.... all my past points seem to be right on the mark. Maybe I need to bring up some old posts. I am doubled over with laughter at this time. I remember when Deado was the next best thing when the other brand was being used. I said it then and I will say it now. The same fighters are still on top. So what are they doing that others can't? Hhhmmmmm....indeed.

 

[Archtkd]

We own a set of Adidas electronic hogu and we think they are the best out there. Adidas reads air pressure, to it reads force, and it gives you feed back that tells you exactly what level of force you generated. Adidas hogu keeps the match like it was originally intended, score only full force, abrupt displacement blows.

Do you need sensor on a sock for the Adidas system? It sounds to me like that system adheres better to the WTF concept/rule that any part of below the ankle can score. I think you had earlier mentioned that people using the Daedoo system are having major problems scoring with back kick because the sensors are placed in part of the foot that are usually not used in back kicks.