CUTA vs. MAC California by GM Young In CHEON

puunui

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Here is an email exchange between GM Chan Yong KIM (Master Jimmy Kim's father) and GM Young In CHEON. I think this is more evidence of the coming dis-unification of Taekwondo and its effects. We are watching Taekwondo unravel before our eyes.


*****

Message from Grandmaster Kim:

Dear Master Cheon,

First of all, I wish you and your family a happy and healthy New Year
2011. Thank you for your email regarding the CUTA meeting.
I am very much confused on California State Taekwondo organization.
Several individuals claim that they are the official state governing bodies.
Is that true that Master Ko is the president of California State
Taekwondo Association?
If not, who is the legitimate president and which organization is recognized
by the USAT?
I would appreciate your clarification.
Once again, thank you and best wishes.

Chan-Yong Kim


My reply:

Dear Grandmaster Kim


Happy New Years to you too sir.

I understand that there must be confusion with the different taekwondo
organizations in California. USAT recognizes only the California
Unified Taekwondo Association (CUTA) as the state governing body of
Taekwondo. CUTA has been hosting the State qualifying championships
for the past 4 years and CUTA was the selected official state
association.

Currently, Martial Arts Commission (MAC) is a private organization
that has been created by Martial Arts Commissioner Joon Pyo Choi. MAC
is the same level as Referee Committee, Tournament Committee, they are
there to help Taekwondo in the USA- not take over state association.
There is confusion because even though MAC is not an official state
organization they are being supported and involved with USAT events.
They call themselves "California Taekwondo" in some of their
literature which is confusing because they are not official sgb.

I questioned Mr. David Askinas at the National Jr. Olympic and
Nationals and also in Colorado Springs at the State Presidents
meeting...I asked Mr. Askinas how he can support MAC when this will
only hurt our current state organization. I told him that if he
allowed MAC or selected more than 1 state organization this will cause
conflict and hurt Taekwondo in the USA. Instead of having one strong
unity of state associations supporting USAT, this will only cause
division and weaken Taekwondo. Not just in California, but in many
other states this is a big problem that is arising with MAC
interfering with the state organizations.

For instance, the Kukkiwon is working with USAT to host a "World
Master Instructor Training Course" with MAC California Taekwondo
(private organization). This event is not a CUTA (the official USAT
state association) event yet it is very confusing to others just like
yourself. The MAC California President of Taekwondo Grandmaster Chang
Ko is a close senior of mine and he contacted me to help him support
this Kukkiwon event. Of course, I am always wanting to support any
Taekwondo event and because USAT supports it I, along with the CUTA
encourages everyone to support this Kukkiwon event as well. However,
after this event I would like MAC commissioner Joon Pyo Choi his
promise to announce to the taekwondo community that MAC is a private
state organization and will not pose as the official state
organization.

I am going to ask Mr. Askinas one more time, if he will allow USAT
Martial Arts Commission to create their own state organizations. With
his answer this will determine if I will contact US Olympic Committee
to discuss the rules and regulation and prepare legal action if
necessary.

In order for USAT to grow and prosper, for the Taekwondo movement to
have any strength and momentum we must unite together and work
together.

I'm sorry for the long reply but this is something that has been
troubling me and something must be done.

Thank you for your best wishes and I look forward to seeing you soon sir.

Sincerely,

Master Young In Cheon
 

terryl965

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I guess I am confused since David has all ready gone on record saying the USAT is backing what MAC wants. What legal issue can he have? USAT does not do what is right, so do you believe in any instant that David and USAT would do the right thing?
 
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puunui

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I guess I am confused since David has all ready gone on record saying the USAT is backing what MAC wants. What legal issue can he have? USAT does not do what is right, so do you believe in any instant that David and USAT would do the right thing?

I don't know about right or wrong. My point was this is another example of what happens when people think that unification is unimportant and the resulting ramifications.

I'll spell it out even clearer for you if you do not understand what is going on. CUTA feels that MAC California is horning in on their exclusive, unified territory granted to them by USAT. On the other side, MAC California, or more specifically, MAC's GM Joon Pyo CHOI, can see the eventual collapse of USAT and is positioning himself and MAC as the successor to USAT. One point that GM Choi is trying to firm up is the fact that unlike USAT, he has a good relationship with Kukkiwon because GM KANG Won Sik is from the same kwan as he is, Song Moo Kwan, so much so that they can host Kukkiwon seminars.

THAT is what this is about, not the seminar itself. The Kukkiwon seminar is a tool to be used to gain USOC NGB status for MAC.
 

terryl965

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I don't know about right or wrong. My point was this is another example of what happens when people think that unification is unimportant and the resulting ramifications.

I'll spell it out even clearer for you if you do not understand what is going on. CUTA feels that MAC California is horning in on their exclusive, unified territory granted to them by USAT. On the other side, MAC California, or more specifically, MAC's GM Joon Pyo CHOI, can see the eventual collapse of USAT and is positioning himself and MAC as the successor to USAT. One point that GM Choi is trying to firm up is the fact that unlike USAT, he has a good relationship with Kukkiwon because GM KANG Won Sik is from the same kwan as he is, Song Moo Kwan, so much so that they can host Kukkiwon seminars.

THAT is what this is about, not the seminar itself. The Kukkiwon seminar is a tool to be used to gain USOC NGB status for MAC.

Ok so what can CUTA do with attorneys? If USAT goes down or should I say when they go down, how would any state org still be the forefront? I mean they would re-organized it from top to bottom and that would include the state associations. If MAC has that much potential to take over as the NGB would they notposition themself as far away as they could from USAT? Sorry you seem to know more than I do about this so I am asking these questions.
 
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puunui

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Ok so what can CUTA do with attorneys? If USAT goes down or should I say when they go down, how would any state org still be the forefront? I mean they would re-organized it from top to bottom and that would include the state associations. If MAC has that much potential to take over as the NGB would they notposition themself as far away as they could from USAT? Sorry you seem to know more than I do about this so I am asking these questions.


I don't know what they can do with attorneys. If USAT goes down, then all the state associations would also fall, including CUTA. I don't know if MAC has that much potential, but that is what GM Choi is obviously trying for, a takeover of the NGB status. I think he would be pushing MAC less hard if they allowed him to become USAT Board Chair. I think MAC is walking a tightrope, attempting to remain independent but also trying to be a part of USAT, as much as possible, which some may feel improves their chances of moving in as the new NGB. MAC has its own problems, the least of which is that the people in charge of the MAC state associations have very little prior experience in governance outside of their own dojang. If they had any leadership potential or ability, they would have come out during the USTU era and asserted themselves then.

The other group vying for USAT's spot is ATU. But they are taking a different approach. Instead of working from the USOC side, they are lobbying WTF and the Korean government to replace USAT with their group. The Moogoonghwa (Grandmaster's Society) is supporting the ATU on this.

So what you have is one american group led by a non-Taekwondoin running USAT into the ground, and two Korean taekwondoin group each trying from different angles to replace USAT. What is missing is a group of American Taekwondoin organizing and doing its thing. That group would probably have the best chance of succeeding USAT.

As it stands, we will probably get a new version of USAT, which is neither MAC nor ATU. I don't think MAC or ATU would appeal to the USOC. We might develop a situation like in Australia where WTF endorses one group and USOC chooses another. However, that would pop up on the IOC radar, and even the WTF isn't so stupid as to have two of those types of situations going at the same time. Or maybe they are, I don't know. Like USAT, it's hard to predict just how idiotic the WTF leadership will be.
 

Archtkd

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I don't know what they can do with attorneys. If USAT goes down, then all the state associations would also fall, including CUTA. I don't know if MAC has that much potential, but that is what GM Choi is obviously trying for, a takeover of the NGB status. I think he would be pushing MAC less hard if they allowed him to become USAT Board Chair. I think MAC is walking a tightrope, attempting to remain independent but also trying to be a part of USAT, as much as possible, which some may feel improves their chances of moving in as the new NGB. MAC has its own problems, the least of which is that the people in charge of the MAC state associations have very little prior experience in governance outside of their own dojang. If they had any leadership potential or ability, they would have come out during the USTU era and asserted themselves then.

The other group vying for USAT's spot is ATU. But they are taking a different approach. Instead of working from the USOC side, they are lobbying WTF and the Korean government to replace USAT with their group. The Moogoonghwa (Grandmaster's Society) is supporting the ATU on this.

So what you have is one american group led by a non-Taekwondoin running USAT into the ground, and two Korean taekwondoin group each trying from different angles to replace USAT. What is missing is a group of American Taekwondoin organizing and doing its thing. That group would probably have the best chance of succeeding USAT.

Maybe I'm missing something:

How would MAC become a NGB without an individual and club membership base? I thought MAC was founded with a premise that it would help USAT attract the Korean/Korean American dojang membership, which evaporated with the demise of the USTU? Despite boasting a large number of Korean/Korean American commissioners, MAC has not been effective in bringing Korean/Korean American dojangs, which comprise a large section of the US Taekwondo sector, back to USAT. Also, MAC's presense in most states, save for California, is minute.

The bulk of USAT club members - going by a rough check of the organization's stats -- are not controlled by Korean/Korean American instructors or masters. How is it that those members are unable to get organized to bring the changes that so many of us are demanding? Could it be those club members -- who willingly pay dues annually -- are satisfied with the current USAT regime or really don't care? What would "a group of American Taekwondoin organizing and doing its thing," achieve by replacing the suppossedly runaway Taekwondo NGB train that is currently held together by other "American" Taekwondoin? What USAT might need is a mighty uprising from within. A populist coup organized by a strong and determined cabal of its current club membership.
 
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puunui

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How would MAC become a NGB without an individual and club membership base? I thought MAC was founded with a premise that it would help USAT attract the Korean/Korean American dojang membership, which evaporated with the demise of the USTU? Despite boasting a large number of Korean/Korean American commissioners, MAC has not been effective in bringing Korean/Korean American dojangs, which comprise a large section of the US Taekwondo sector, back to USAT. Also, MAC's presense in most states, save for California, is minute.


Like I said before, I don't know if GM Choi will succeed in his effort to turn MAC into the next USOC NGB for Taekwondo, but that is obviously what he is shooting for.


The bulk of USAT club members - going by a rough check of the organization's stats -- are not controlled by Korean/Korean American instructors or masters. How is it that those members are unable to get organized to bring the changes that so many of us are demanding? Could it be those club members -- who willingly pay dues annually -- are satisfied with the current USAT regime or really don't care? What would "a group of American Taekwondoin organizing and doing its thing," achieve by replacing the suppossedly runaway Taekwondo NGB train that is currently held together by other "American" Taekwondoin? What USAT might need is a mighty uprising from within. A populist coup organized by a strong and determined cabal of its current club membership.

I don't think very many club owners or members are satisfied with the way things are going. But few are willing to do what it takes to make a meaningful change.

Americans are raised with an attitude of rebellion. We are taught from grade school about the Boston Tea Party, and the Revolution against British rule. What isn't emphasized so much is that we gained our freedom through a unified effort. Every colony was on board and signed the Declaration of Independence and worked together despite individual differences.

So what we have is people who will scream about freedom, but won't unite to effectuate that freedom. So we have uncoordinated efforts to make change, but nothing that leads to meaningful change.

On the opposite end, USAT is highly organized in their efforts to maintain control. They have the control part, but do not have the support to make the organization grow. Or they are unwilling to do the things that would lead to larger membership, which basically translates to a loss of control.

We've been operating like this for the last seven years, and frankly I'm surprised that it lasted this long.
 

Archtkd

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I don't think very many club owners or members are satisfied with the way things are going. But few are willing to do what it takes to make a meaningful change.

Americans are raised with an attitude of rebellion. We are taught from grade school about the Boston Tea Party, and the Revolution against British rule. What isn't emphasized so much is that we gained our freedom through a unified effort. Every colony was on board and signed the Declaration of Independence and worked together despite individual differences.

So what we have is people who will scream about freedom, but won't unite to effectuate that freedom. So we have uncoordinated efforts to make change, but nothing that leads to meaningful change.

Here's why there is apathy and lack of rebellion: There's no King George draining our sweat and blood. Very few club members are getting hurt by USAT's mismagement. Also, very few of those members would gain anything if USAT were to suddenly become the best managed Taekwondo NGB in the world. I will dare to opine that the existence or non-existence of USAT really means nothing to the bulk of Kukki Taekwondoin in the nation. The majority of Korean/Korean American dojang owners, who own a huge chunk of the country's Taekwondo industry marketshare, now know that. That's why the will never go back to USAT, and that's why they sometimes laugh at all the loud screams and noises we make about the NGB.
 
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d1jinx

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Here's why there is apathy and lack of rebellion. There's no King George draining our sweat and blood. Very few club members are getting hurt by USAT's mismagement. Also, very few of those members would gain anything if USAT where to suddenly become the best managed Taekwondo NGB in the world. I will dare to opine that the existence or non-existence of USAT really means nothing to the bulk of Kukki Taekwondoin in this country. The majority of Korean/Korean American dojang owners, who own a huge chunk of the Taekwondo industry marketshare in the country now know this.

I think i agree with this. Back when the USTU fell/disolved/whatever, many people found that they could easily survive without a NGB and that the new one did not benefit them at all.

When there was USTU states, many schools were heavily involved and it seemed as though one had to be a part of the USTU to have and participate in any good competition. It was actually more valuable to the schools to be a part of that org because each school had some sort of role in it at the local level.

Then USAT came along and pulled the state org out of the NGB. many states still kept their org, and tried to transition over to USAT but that turned out to be even more of a headache than it was worth. Now people have nothing to gain from USAT.

Many people learned when the USTU was disolved that they COULD survive without A NGB... why go back!
 
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