Cross Training

[Deathtrap101]

Well im still getting so much information from studying karate, i do want to try out other styles, my main style will always be karate i beleive, and i dont think ill jump into hardcore itraining with another style untill the knowledge im getting now slows down to the point where im just trying to perfect all my moves and am already very good at them.

So if your going to crosstrain just make sure your learning more than just the top thin layers of each art. Becuse all of them im sure go very deep in information.

Just my 2 bits

 

[Angus]

It really depends on the persons need whether cross training is going to be beneficial for the person. Detrimental for the preservation of a traditional art? Maybe, but in my opinion arts is supposed to have some sort of evolution/progression over time, rather than staying completely static and unchanged over time. Not that many need to be, I just think it's going to happen whether you really want it or not.

As for the person, some are fine with 1 art and some want many. I happen to like many. However, I'm going to study many traditionally-based (but evolved) arts until I'm satisfied with what I know and I can do. I've studied Karate (american, not wholly traditional) to black, I studied Muay Thai unbelted for a few years, and I'm now studying a blend of things that does not completely satisfy me. Next I want to study Jungyae Moosul, which is a Korean martial art created just 15 years ago by the son of a Tae Kwon Do supreme grandmaster because he felt that it needed to be less sport oriented and more spiritual, while adding ground fighting/grappling and weapons training. It's a great system. But will I stop there? Maybe not. I may not teach every art someday, but I want to be as complete a martial artist as possible. But again, that's just me. I plan to study at least another 10/15 years before I teach because I'm still young. But even then I plan to constantly study other (and the same) arts. I just want to learn and be a perpetual student, because cross training really does take up a LOT of time but can be very beneficial for the student. Good discussion!

On another side note: I think it's better to learn 1 art at a time for preservation of the art, whether that person has studied others or not. Teach too many at the same time and it's really not teaching the arts so much as a way of defense/fighting that creates a jack-of-all-trades-"master"-of-none, which is probably the biggest problem with crosstraining. I think 1 art at a time for me.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Originally posted by 7starmantis

I see how people want the advantage of crosstraining, but if it is so effective, why didn't any of the old masters and grandmasters crosstrain? They are extremely effective, and never cross trained a bit.


7sm

In fact alot of people we would call Masters cross-trained. They maybe didn't study different arts, but study with various teachers. Shigeru Nakamura the founder of Okinawa Kempo studied with 7 different Teachers. Anko Itosu the man who developed the Pinan Kata's studied under 4 different teachers. Shoshin Nagamine the founder of Matsubayashi-Ryu and Chotoku Kyan each had 6 instrutors. The list could go on and on. I believe the Old Masters did cross-train. But they didn't study one art this week and move on to another next week. Cross training is very important for one dementional arts.
Bob :asian:

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu


In fact alot of people we would call Masters cross-trained. They maybe didn't study different arts, but study with various teachers. Shigeru Nakamura the founder of Okinawa Kempo studied with 7 different Teachers. Anko Itosu the man who developed the Pinan Kata's studied under 4 different teachers. Shoshin Nagamine the founder of Matsubayashi-Ryu and Chotoku Kyan each had 6 instrutors. The list could go on and on. I believe the Old Masters did cross-train. But they didn't study one art this week and move on to another next week. Cross training is very important for one dementional arts.
Bob :asian:

I didn't say I disagreed with training under different teachers. I've studied under different teachers myself, and I guess according to you guys have cross trained a bit, having studied Black Dragon, JKD, and now Mantis. I guess my issue as said earlier is that Kung Fu has so much more to it, that it can be very detrimental to cross train with another art. I'm not saying cross training between Tiger style and crane style, although I would do only one at a time. I'm talkign about cross training between Kung Fu and TKD. or something similar to that. Like arnisador said earlier you could call some kung fu system cross training because they use several animal forms, but its the art of using them together that is one system.



JMHO
7sm

 

[tonbo]

Personally, I believe that cross-training can be beneficial, depending on how you do it.

If you are training to become a master of all styles, don't waste your time. You will never make that happen. You might get a pretty good overview of a number of styles, but you won't truly be able to "master" more than a couple. This is due to the fact that there are so many intricacies in each art, you won't learn all there is to learn in each art unless you happen to be immortal...

On the other hand, if you have an established "base" martial art that you train in, cross-training can add to that art and give you different perspectives. It never hurts, for example, for a stand-up fighter to study weapons and grappling; the reverse is also true. Having the variety is good, as you may be exposed to things that can show the holes in your own training, and you can only get stronger that way.

Once again, I will go back to my banquet analogy: The martial arts is like a huge banquet table, loaded with goodies. Some people stick to what they like and know, while others take a little bit of many things. The nice part is, you can always go back for more..

I encourage cross-training, with the following warning: don't become a "belt collector", seeking rank in all these various arts. Expose yourself to a couple that you feel may help strengthen weak points of your current training; evaluate what you can learn, and learn that. Don't try to be a master of all......just try to master yourself.

Peace--

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tonbo

Personally, I believe that cross-training can be beneficial, depending on how you do it.

If you are training to become a master of all styles, don't waste your time. You will never make that happen. You might get a pretty good overview of a number of styles, but you won't truly be able to "master" more than a couple. This is due to the fact that there are so many intricacies in each art, you won't learn all there is to learn in each art unless you happen to be immortal...

On the other hand, if you have an established "base" martial art that you train in, cross-training can add to that art and give you different perspectives. It never hurts, for example, for a stand-up fighter to study weapons and grappling; the reverse is also true. Having the variety is good, as you may be exposed to things that can show the holes in your own training, and you can only get stronger that way.

Once again, I will go back to my banquet analogy: The martial arts is like a huge banquet table, loaded with goodies. Some people stick to what they like and know, while others take a little bit of many things. The nice part is, you can always go back for more..

I encourage cross-training, with the following warning: don't become a "belt collector", seeking rank in all these various arts. Expose yourself to a couple that you feel may help strengthen weak points of your current training; evaluate what you can learn, and learn that. Don't try to be a master of all......just try to master yourself.

Peace--

Great Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :asian:

 

[7starmantis]

So we are saying there is no "complete" or perfectly rounded art out there at all ?


7sm

 

[hand2handCombat]

not really because anything can happen.

 

[H@pkid0ist]

There are some styles that are more rounded than others though.
Studying them doesn't mean that you are guarented to win any fight. It just helps to prepare you better for whatever situation may come around. If a person does decide to crosstrain though I believe that they should wait until they have a good strong base in their present style. To jump from art to art to much or to soon can be more detrimental than beneficial.

 

[Nightingale]

I think an important thing to keep in mind is that there's no point in being a "jack of all trades, master of none."

you can't cross train in so much material that it keeps you in the beginning phases of it.

I cross train, but my primary art is and always will be Kenpo. I cross train in things that Kenpo doesn't have, like weapons forms. Kenpo has the staff set, sure, but I want to learn more than that one kata. I learn the sets from other styles and adapt them to kenpo. The kata may have started out as a Japanese form, but when I'm through with it, it looks like a kenpo form, because my stances and style of movement is kenpo. I learn the kata in its original form, and then...kenpofy it. Also, I learn how to use weapons, and then adapt the kenpo forms to use weapons, for example, I do short form 3 with daggers and also with sais, depending on my mood. I may look elsewhere for weapons, because I've got a major attraction to sharp, shiny metal objects, particularly swords and knives, but I wouldn't even think of cross training in self defense, because Kenpo already has that, in spades.

I've seen so many people get caught up in cross training so much that they know the basics and hold orange belts in seven different styles, but they never really seem to advance much beyond that, because the arts are too different, and they're not trying to supplement what they already know, they just want to learn everything and master everything, and there's simply too much knowledge to completely comprehend. Its like trying to get ten different PhDs all at once...better to get one first, and then take a few classes to augment what you already know.

I don't cross train because I want to learn TKD, or Arnis, or whatever. I cross train to make me a better Kenpoist. I think that's the big difference.

 

[J-kid]

I like to cross train, I do AJW (American Jacket Wrestling) which is Judo/Jijutsu wrestling and all other forms of grappling. I find these skills to be very useful,. But i also like to cross train in striking so i can have both, i did choung nhu but didnt like it much did some boxing and now i am gonna start kenpo, With My AJW i take both , Makes me a stronger fighter, Your friend Judo-kid

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

Cross Training is beneficial as long as the styles compliment each other or offers something that the primary art lacks. In my situation, I'm a kenpoist all the way, but the kenpo schools I go/went to did'nt offer much in the conditioning element. So to rectify this, I started muay thai which has the toughest conditioning around in my opinion. Being what I would call a basic style, meaning it has no fancy or complcated moves, it compliments kenpo perfectly without detracting from it. I'm also studying arnis for no other reason then it's fun

 

[MartialArtist]

Cross-training is VERY BENEFICIAL. If done properly, as good if not better than mastering one art which is pretty hard.

However, when you cross-train, it is important you get a strong root in martial arts. Have a root in a single martial art to get an idea on basic footwork, strikes, locks, and etc. After you get a good, strong basis, at least 3 years of INTENSE training, then the variations of techniques from other styles will come a LOT easier.

For instance, sport TKD teaches only one roundhouse (military teaches the roundhouse and the round, what most of you call the muay thai kick). However, if you get a good basis, the round kick that is found in muay thai will come a lot easier than if you didn't have any martial arts training before, as you get the feel of how to throw kicks and how to keep your balance, putting your hips into it, and the general mechanics. There is a slight technical difference, but it is easy to learn. If you freestyle wrestle, trust me, hapkido becomes easier as you get the feel of shifting weight, getting leverage, and moving your opponent's weight, knowing certain areas like the elbow and the hips which can control most of the body which is vital to certain techniques in hapkido.

Cross-training at all arts at the same time can get confusing. Even arts that supplement each other well like boxing and wrestling can be confusing. An experienced person might say, boxing for striking, wrestling for the ground. But wrestling also has take-downs which are meant for stand-up in-fighting. This might cause confusion on whether the guy should duck and throw a combo or duck and go for a double-leg. This calls for a very experienced instructor if you want to cross-train like that or someone who learns very quickly.

But, if you have a good knowledge in either boxing or wrestling, then learn the other, it does come easier.

Compare cross-training with a tree. You need a trunk. Once you have a trunk, you can form all the branches.

 

[ace]

Cross Training is the only way to go
:asian:
Primo

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by MartialArtist

Cross-training is VERY BENEFICIAL. If done properly, as good if not better than mastering one art which is pretty hard.

So, cross training is easier than mastering one art? That implies that you are only learning the basics of each system you cross train in? How is that beneficial at all, let alone more beneficial than "masterin" an art or system?



7sm

 

[ace]

I spent the last 5 years in Moder Arnis
I am a 1st dagree black belt.
For the Last 2 years i have competed in Ju Jitsu & Grappling
I have won many evenets.

I have practise other M.A.

I am now 1-0 In M.M.A.

I know my basic's well
But if U get cought up in only 1 art
You will miss out on something new.
:snipe2:
:redeme:
Primo

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace

But if U get cought up in only 1 art
You will miss out on something new.

Primo

If you truly study one system you will allways find something new to learn. The reason for cross training shouldn't be for boredom.


7sm

 

[ace]

The reason for cross training
Will differ from one person to the next.

Also meeting new people with new ideas
is always good.

If the Basic's take longer than a year
The instructer is holding back.:fart:
:redeme:
Primo

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by ace

The reason for cross training
Will differ from one person to the next.

Also meeting new people with new ideas
is always good.

If the Basic's take longer than a year
The instructer is holding back.
Primo

So you agree that you are only looking for the basics of each system.
And the "basics" of my system take a hell of a lot longer than a year!


7sm

 

[ace]

I agree that i am consintrating on what works.
I agree that if the basic's take longer than a year
My instructer wants my money.
I agree that there is no 1 art with all the answers.

:argue: I agree that i have struck a nerve
:redeme:
Primo