Counter to throw

gpseymour

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That's how I understand it. You can't grip below the belt I believe, and certain other grips are banned. Which is why so many in Bjj go to wrestling over Judo, because the rule limitations in Judo require a complete reorientation of your training, whereas translating wrestling to Bjj is far easier.
I think there's also something about too much defense/avoidance in the rules. I'm sure that description is entirely acurate and precise. :D
 

gpseymour

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In another Judo forum, when I discussed this subject with a Judo instructor, he asked me, "Are you trying to train Olympic Judo competitors?" In his opinion, Judo guys only train grip fight during very high level.

Do you know any Judo grip breaking (or grip fight) video available online?
I don't have any saved links, but I have seen grip fighting videos from Judoka. They're easier to find from BJJ folks, but the flavor is usually different. I'd say what I found from BJJ folks was more comprehensive.
 

lklawson

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ignore your opponent's arms (such as 2 Judo guys just dance around)..
Not accurate.

Judo players don't actually ignore arms. I'm not sure where you get that.
Agreed.

judo as ut has developed, has the tendancy to have the arms in one very predictable place
A misstatement of the facts. In Shiai you can take any above-the-waist grip you wish but if it is considered a non-standard grip you have 3 seconds to initiate an attack.
Judo rules - Wikipedia

Judo players don't actually ignore arms. I'm not sure where you get that.
It is more that the rules encourage attacking and action. 3-5 seconds for a non-standard grip just isn't a ton of time to fart around with grip-fighting. Just get on with the throw.

That's how I understand it. You can't grip below the belt I believe, and certain other grips are banned. Which is why so many in Bjj go to wrestling over Judo, because the rule limitations in Judo require a complete reorientation of your training, whereas translating wrestling to Bjj is far easier.
My club currently has a BJJ national champion training with us. BJJ black belt and Shodan in Judo (should be Nidan by now, truly). He likes to use Judo in BJJ comps. The strategy works well and it tends to throw his opponents off their game.

I think there's also something about too much defense/avoidance in the rules. I'm sure that description is entirely acurate and precise. :D
Stalling, false attacks, and "defensive" only postures are prohibited and can earn you a shido (penalty) in competition. That said, schools which branch out from competition don't have any issues with feints and "defensive postures." This is common in Judo clubs which teach "judo for self defense," "old style judo" or have an instructor double ranked in something like Danzan.
Judo rules - Wikipedia

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

jobo

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Not accurate.


Agreed.


A misstatement of the facts. In Shiai you can take any above-the-waist grip you wish but if it is considered a non-standard grip you have 3 seconds to initiate an attack.
Judo rules - Wikipedia


It is more that the rules encourage attacking and action. 3-5 seconds for a non-standard grip just isn't a ton of time to fart around with grip-fighting. Just get on with the throw.


My club currently has a BJJ national champion training with us. BJJ black belt and Shodan in Judo (should be Nidan by now, truly). He likes to use Judo in BJJ comps. The strategy works well and it tends to throw his opponents off their game.


Stalling, false attacks, and "defensive" only postures are prohibited and can earn you a shido (penalty) in competition. That said, schools which branch out from competition don't have any issues with feints and "defensive postures." This is common in Judo clubs which teach "judo for self defense," "old style judo" or have an instructor double ranked in something like Danzan.
Judo rules - Wikipedia

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
above the waist is a predictable place.
as in, i bet he will place his arms somewhere between my waist and my neck, yes, how predictable
 

lklawson

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above the waist is a predictable place.
as in, i bet he will place his arms somewhere between my waist and my neck, yes, how predictable
I bet he'll place his hands somewhere on my body or clothing. How predictable. :rolleyes:

You over-stated your case and are now trying to justify it. How predictable.

The fact is that even in Shiai judo players are free to grab anywhere above legs with a time limit for "non-standard" grips and are free to grab anywhere in randori provided it's sanctioned by the dojo or by agreement of the players.

But you'll believe whatever you want and will undoubtedly continue to try to argue this foolishness. So go ahead. Here, use this space:_______________
 

jobo

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I bet he'll place his hands somewhere on my body or clothing. How predictable. :rolleyes:

You over-stated your case and are now trying to justify it. How predictable.

The fact is that even in Shiai judo players are free to grab anywhere above legs with a time limit for "non-standard" grips and are free to grab anywhere in randori provided it's sanctioned by the dojo or by agreement of the players.

But you'll believe whatever you want and will undoubtedly continue to try to argue this foolishness. So go ahead. Here, use this space:_______________
the torso is one place, it even has a place name, the upper torso just makes it even more predictable
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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the torso is one place, it even has a place name, the upper torso just makes it even more predictable
You don't need to have a grips in order to start your throw. The wrestling single leg and double legs don't start with any grips.

I like those techniques that don't require grips. It's much easier to integrate into the striking art.

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drop bear

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Stalling, false attacks, and "defensive" only postures are prohibited and can earn you a shido (penalty) in competition. That said, schools which branch out from competition don't have any issues with feints and "defensive postures." This is common in Judo clubs which teach "judo for self defense," "old style judo" or have an instructor double ranked in something like

Our school frowns on that sort of thing in training because it wastes a lot of time that can be better spent learning to wrestle.
 

gpseymour

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Our school frowns on that sort of thing in training because it wastes a lot of time that can be better spent learning to wrestle.
Yeah, sometimes you just need to set up a worst-case scenario so you can get some practice in on specific things.
 

jobo

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Europe also has a place name.
it does, thats because its one place, sub devided into more specific regions on an abstact political basis, counties do not exist outside of politics ie the minds of men, europe however does, (both politicaly and )geographically
 
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gpseymour

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it does, thats because its one place, sub devided into more specific regions on an abstact political basis, counties do not exist outside of politics ie the minds of men, europe however does, (both politicaly and )geographically
So, you'd consider it easy to predict where someone would be at a given time if you were told they were somewhere in Europe?
 

jobo

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So, you'd consider it easy to predict where someone would be at a given time if you were told they were somewhere in Europe?
id find it easy to predict they wernt in africa

which in this tortued analogy your developing, would be the legs or the north pole that would be the head
 

gpseymour

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id find it easy to predict they wernt in africa
Okay. So you don't have to defend Africa. But you don't really know where that person is, do you? That's Kirk's point. Yes, Judo rules mean there are fewer places to defend, but it doesn't make the hand position entirely predictable, unless you stretch the concept to something like "I can predict they wernt in africa".
 

jobo

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Okay. So you don't have to defend Africa. But you don't really know where that person is, do you? That's Kirk's point. Yes, Judo rules mean there are fewer places to defend, but it doesn't make the hand position entirely predictable, unless you stretch the concept to something like "I can predict they wernt in africa".
i know exaxtly where they are, they are in europe, which is an exact location

the body doesnt have an equivelent of France, as france doesnt exist geographicaly, it would like inventing a body location that doesnt exist anatomically , like the minds eye or a third arm
 

gpseymour

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i know exaxtly where they are, they are in europe, which is an exact location

the body doesnt have an equivelent of France, as france doesnt exist geographicaly, it would like inventing a body location that doesnt exist anatomically , like the minds eye or a third arm
Um, the arm (Netherlands?) is above the waist. As is the lapel (Germany?), the wrist (UK?), etc. There are, in fact, multiple locations "above the waist". Unless your torso is roughly hand-sized, then I'd concede the point.
 

jobo

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Um, the arm (Netherlands?) is above the waist. As is the lapel (Germany?), the wrist (UK?), etc. There are, in fact, multiple locations "above the waist". Unless your torso is roughly hand-sized, then I'd concede the point.
but non of those places exist, they are not phyical location, just political entities

you could narrow it down by geoghacal features, like mountains.

but those would still be in europe, and would be the same as say a low grip or a high grip,or a wide grip v a norrow grip but still very predictable, , as there are only so many variations like there ate only so many moubtains in europe,and as they are not attacking Antarctica
 
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dvcochran

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Okay. So you don't have to defend Africa. But you don't really know where that person is, do you? That's Kirk's point. Yes, Judo rules mean there are fewer places to defend, but it doesn't make the hand position entirely predictable, unless you stretch the concept to something like "I can predict they wernt in africa".
Most folks know I am more of an up fighter. But I do have some wrestling experience.
When you say "fewer places to defend" are you talking about leverage points or are there specific places that are off limits in Judo competition?
 

drop bear

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Most folks know I am more of an up fighter. But I do have some wrestling experience.
When you say "fewer places to defend" are you talking about leverage points or are there specific places that are off limits in Judo competition?

You can't do throws like double legs.
 

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