Congresswoman Giffords Shot in Tucson

[Empty Hands]

So this would be like me thinking I know everything about Kajukenbo since I am a Black Belt in Kenpo Karate... similar, but not the same.

Do you know what a neuroscientist is? My Master's work was in a lab that studied the serotonergic system and depression. While my primary focus in my postdoctoral work is on developing drugs for addiction and recovery, they also have potential applications in depression, and I keep a hand in the literature.

So yes, you are talking to a professional. Your gambit failed.

Oh so sorry that you dont think I understand medical terms, my moms a doctor, my sister is working on her doctorate at USC, Im surrounded by doctors in one field or another in my family, so your little digs do nothing more then show your pompous attitude

So what is the role of the dorsal raphe serotonergic system in depression? If you actually knew, then you probably wouldn't claim that depression doesn't exist - nor would you admit to knowing nothing about depression. What they do is show you that your claims to the contrary, I know a lot more about depression than you do. A wise man listens to those more educated on a topic than they are, not insist that their learning makes them "pompous" - much less incorrect.

See if I were to do something like that you and your friends would be screaming I was a bully, or using bully tactics.. its pathetic.

No, what's bullying and pathetic is calling people with depression or other mental illnesses "weak".

Look, you admit you know nothing, and you are talking with people that have both experience with the disease AND are scientific professionals studying it. Your position is completely ignorant and untenable. Admit that, apologize for your ignorant insults, and move on. Your increasing flailing is just making you look worse.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Do you know what a neuroscientist is? My Master's work was in a lab that studied the serotonergic system and depression. While my primary focus in my postdoctoral work is on developing drugs for addiction and recovery, they also have potential applications in depression, and I keep a hand in the literature.

So yes, you are talking to a professional. Your gambit failed.

I still believe you are in a related field not in the field of depression itself.
Answer me this then, what is the laboratory test to diagnose major depression?
this should be easy for you, since you are a neuroscientist after all.... wait whats that? There is none? oh ok....

So what is the role of the dorsal raphe serotonergic system in depression? If you actually knew, then you probably wouldn't claim that depression doesn't exist - nor would you admit to knowing nothing about depression. What they do is show you that your claims to the contrary, I know a lot more about depression than you do. A wise man listens to those more educated on a topic than they are, not insist that their learning makes them "pompous" - much less incorrect.

I couldn't tell you with any certainty, I would assume it has to do with seratonin, and norepinephrine though... but while it has a play in the levels of things, it doesn't explain how it works, or why it works, or how to change it... does it?

No, what's bullying and pathetic is calling people with depression or other mental illnesses "weak".

umm no, I disagree, I am not calling them names, I simply think they are not trying. I am not trying to hold them down, I am simply not offering to spend my time trying to do what I feel they should be doing for themselves.

Look, you admit you know nothing, and you are talking with people that have both experience with the disease AND are scientific professionals studying it. Your position is completely ignorant and untenable. Admit that, apologize for your ignorant insults, and move on. Your increasing flailing is just making you look worse.

I have experience with looking at the stars, yet I couldn't tell you how they ended up where they are now with a 100% certainty. And you are studying it, you havent solved it, you are trying to figure things out, thats great, I hope you succeed, I hope you are the person that unlocks all the secrets that solves the problem one way or the other once and for all, but last I looked it isnt solved is it?
you can say to ignore the man behind the curtain, but the fact is you dont know.. your searching for an answer right?

 

[Empty Hands]

I still believe you are in a related field not in the field of depression itself.

What does it matter even if I was? Does that somehow justify your belief and your admitted ignorance in the face of all evidence to the contrary?

Answer me this then, what is the laboratory test to diagnose major depression?
this should be easy for you, since you are a neuroscientist after all.... wait whats that? There is none? oh ok....

There are neurochemical correlates with depression. Decreased serotonin release after stimulation for one, which is why serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are effective (although not the whole story). Unfortunately, the way that is measured is by sticking microdialysis tubes into the brain, which is a bad idea in people for a host of reasons. The limitation is technical, not based on knowledge.

I couldn't tell you with any certainty, I would assume it has to do with seratonin, and norepinephrine though... but while it has a play in the levels of things, it doesn't explain how it works, or why it works, or how to change it... does it?

It does in part - that is why drugs which block serotonin reuptake are effective. Norepinephrine uptake blockade is also part of the mechanism of the tricyclic antidepressants. So yes, those neurotransmitters explain a lot.

umm no, I disagree, I am not calling them names, I simply think they are not trying.

It may not be a name, but it is a massive insult none the less. Also completely ineffective. Do you ever bother for a minute to figure out why someone would want to feel so bad if all they had to do was try a little? It almost becomes dehumanizing at that point to not even consider others as you would yourself.

you can say to ignore the man behind the curtain, but the fact is you dont know.. your searching for an answer right?

The answer I'm searching for is a better understanding of mechanism and better drugs for treatment - NOT TO FIND OUT IF DEPRESSION EVEN EXISTS! Your comparison to the stars is instructive, because following your logic, because you don't understand how the stars got there, then they must not exist!

 

[chrispillertkd]

Bighollywood has a whole page of hate radiating from the recent, and not so recent, past from our wonderful entertainment community. The list is truly amazing. I wonder how many regular people who just go about their lives know how hateful the left in hollywood really is when they are not reading a script.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/

1. Flashback: Wanda Sykes Hopes Rush Limbaugh's Kidneys Fail
3. Flashback: 'Boondocks' Creator McGruder Calls Condi Rice, Colin Powell Murderers
10. Flashback: Montel Williams Urges Michele Bachmann to kill herself
13. Flashback: Sean Penn Calls Reagan's Alzheimer's 'Justice'
4. Flashback: Ebert's Site Praises Left-wing Bush Assassination Film
6. Flashback: Alec Baldwin threatens to Stone Henry Hyde, kill children
12. Flashback: Jeff Wells Praises metaphor of 'Hobo' film blasting wealthy with shotgun

Oh, the love. Makes me feel all warm inside.

Conversely, this is kind of interesting:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/01/heres-partial-list-of-some-of-incidents.html

Looks like learning from one's past mistakes isn't high on the list of priorities of the Libs.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Archangel M]

Majority doesn't blame rhetoric for Giffords shooting

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A majority of Americans reject the view that heated political rhetoric was a factor in the weekend shootings in Arizona which killed six and critically wounded a congresswoman, a CBS News said on Tuesday.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

What does it matter even if I was? Does that somehow justify your belief and your admitted ignorance in the face of all evidence to the contrary?

all evidence? what evidence? there is just as much evidence that medical intervention makes the problem as bad or worse. There is no evidence that depression is only able to be treated medically. Thats my point. I don't have to have a doctorate and be the most knowledgable person on the planet to read and understand reports, and studies that say there is no proven treament one way or the other. You assume me calling myself ignorant means im an idiot. Thats your hang up not mine.

There are neurochemical correlates with depression. Decreased serotonin release after stimulation for one, which is why serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are effective (although not the whole story). Unfortunately, the way that is measured is by sticking microdialysis tubes into the brain, which is a bad idea in people for a host of reasons. The limitation is technical, not based on knowledge.

Fair enough, the fact remains there is no laboratory test to show whats going on and how to effectively treat it, or that it even has to be treated medically, or that its even not able to be reversed by simply living life and having a support system of friends and famiy to be just that friends and family. There is nothing that says how and why those chemical levels are doing what they do, and what effects them is there? So you can not say with any degree of certainty that it is not something that a person can not reverse on their own.. Diabetes for example is a disease that often is reversible by peopel simply changing what they are doing and getting fit. I have personally seen peopel on 4-5 medications lose all of them by losing fat and eating better. No medication necessary. I believe depression is similar.

It does in part - that is why drugs which block serotonin reuptake are effective. Norepinephrine uptake blockade is also part of the mechanism of the tricyclic antidepressants. So yes, those neurotransmitters explain a lot.

They can be effective, they can also be devastating. When you start using drugs to replace the bodies ability to produce certain chemicals the body will stop doing it, and then your stuck relying on a drug that may or may not work long term. There are plenty of stories of people with so called depression getting messed up on the medical drugs perscribed for them and committing suicide, or something worse. I will grant you the drugs may or may not be the reason they are committing suicide and worse, but then again there is no proof or understanding as far as I know anyways as to why the body is not putting the chemicals out, and if the body can regaint he equilibrium necessary to not be depressed.. I still believe its about intent, some people get so intent on being sick that they are able to mentally effect their immune system and get sick.

It may not be a name, but it is a massive insult none the less. Also completely ineffective. Do you ever bother for a minute to figure out why someone would want to feel so bad if all they had to do was try a little? It almost becomes dehumanizing at that point to not even consider others as you would yourself.

it is not an insult if what I believe is true. It is not like me calling someone with downs syndrome a derogatory name, its not like me calling someone of a specific race a derogatory name.. it would be like me telling someoen who is upset that they cant run a mile because they dont try lazy and they should just get up and start doing it. Now like I said, prove me wrong, and show me where it is not a choice, but a condition proven to be caused against a persons will and then I will rethink my opinions on it.

The answer I'm searching for is a better understanding of mechanism and better drugs for treatment - NOT TO FIND OUT IF DEPRESSION EVEN EXISTS! Your comparison to the stars is instructive, because following your logic, because you don't understand how the stars got there, then they must not exist!

of course you are looking for better drugs for treatment, the medical establishment is always looking for ways to get people to live longer, but rely on medications... go make your money.. I think it would be more important to figure out why a person is losing the ability to equalize the chemicals needed, and if that condition can be reversed without medication, rather then just finding a way to get a buck by getting someone stuck on another medication to replace somehting their body already does anyways.
I never said depression doesn't exist. You just are not getting my point.
depression exists, I dont consider a mental illness, I consider a frame of mind, and reversable..
you know what will be interesting, there is some headway being made into erasing memory... as scary as that technology is, and the many ways it can be misused. I am really curious if in cases of people with severe depression, who also have traumatic episodes in their past if erasing those memories would get rid of the depression as well...

 

[Touch Of Death]

of course you are looking for better drugs for treatment, the medical establishment is always looking for ways to get people to live longer, but rely on medications... go make your money.. I think it would be more important to figure out why a person is losing the ability to equalize the chemicals needed, and if that condition can be reversed without medication, rather then just finding a way to get a buck by getting someone stuck on another medication to replace somehting their body already does anyways.
I never said depression doesn't exist. You just are not getting my point.
depression exists, I dont consider a mental illness, I consider a frame of mind, and reversable..
you know what will be interesting, there is some headway being made into erasing memory... as scary as that technology is, and the many ways it can be misused. I am really curious if in cases of people with severe depression, who also have traumatic episodes in their past if erasing those memories would get rid of the depression as well...

Therapy helps, but I know people who are so, manic depressive they hallucinate, which incidently is call schizophrenic manic depression. Guess what? Therapy won't help to get the dragons off the ceiling.
Sean

 

[Steve]

yes this is were we are differing in our thoughts.
I am not convinced that depression at any level is an illness that is necessary to have medical and professional invervention for.
You and several others here are obviously on the other side of that fence.
I appreciate that, I just don't buy into it.
And as far as the mental illness knowledge goes, even the most esteemed experts are changing their minds on things daily, and proving past theories incorrect. So even though in the field the prevailing theory is that it requires medical invervention, It is not the only theory, and it is not proven to be the only method, and in fact in when medically treated there are all kinds of failures with the medications, and the results.
So if someone wants to tell me I am wrong, then I am going to need some type of facts that are irrefutable to show me where I am wrong... show me that and I will be the firs tone to say yep I am wrong, thanks for informing me.
The problem is these people want me to jump on their bandwagon, and accept whatever they say as gospel. IT doesn't work that way.

I'm okay with that. We'll agree to disagree. I'm not equipped to give you the proof you're looking for, and I don't think that anything will change your mind except for, god forbid, someone you know well and personally respect being diagnosed with some form of mental illness.

In cases like this, honestly, I hope that never happens. I'd rather continue to respectfully disagree with you than have you experience mental illness, either personally or peripherally through someone you know and respect. I also hope that, if it does ever happen, you'll be a little kinder to your friend than you were to Blade96. I respect your opinions completely, but that was pretty cold.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I'm okay with that. We'll agree to disagree. I'm not equipped to give you the proof you're looking for, and I don't think that anything will change your mind except for, god forbid, someone you know well and personally respect being diagnosed with some form of mental illness.

Thanks, to make myself clear though I do believe that there are metnal illnesses, I just dont believe that depression is one.

In cases like this, honestly, I hope that never happens. I'd rather continue to respectfully disagree with you than have you experience mental illness, either personally or peripherally through someone you know and respect. I also hope that, if it does ever happen, you'll be a little kinder to your friend than you were to Blade96. I respect your opinions completely, but that was pretty cold.

I also appreciate that comment. I went back to reread what I posted to Blade96, and I while I agree it comes off as cold, I have no emotional connection with her to make it warm, and my comments were not meant to be hurtful but to the point. The meaning can be twisted to seem hurtful, but that was not the intention. Sometimes trying to write on a forum and omit any expression of emotion leaves way to much to interpretation.
So to make myself clear I have no ill will towards anyone on this planet except.....
criminals who murder, rape, molest, or hurt innocent people, and people who want to interfere with my way of life, or take from me to suit their own agendas. People with different opinions, politics, religions, hobbies, tastes, etc from me do not bother me at all, and actually make life more enjoyable. I wouldnt want to live in a place where everyone was a carbon copy of me. Its one of the reasons I have stayed in California for so long, although the environment is becoming more and more hostile here for successful business owners, and if continues to get worse then I will have to move elsewhere.../shrug

 

[Touch Of Death]

I also appreciate that comment. I went back to reread what I posted to Blade96, and I while I agree it comes off as cold, I have no emotional connection with her to make it warm, and my comments were not meant to be hurtful but to the point. The meaning can be twisted to seem hurtful, but that was not the intention. Sometimes trying to write on a forum and omit any expression of emotion leaves way to much to interpretation.
So to make myself clear I have no ill will towards anyone on this planet except.....
criminals who murder, rape, molest, or hurt innocent people, and people who want to interfere with my way of life, or take from me to suit their own agendas. People with different opinions, politics, religions, hobbies, tastes, etc from me do not bother me at all, and actually make life more enjoyable. I wouldnt want to live in a place where everyone was a carbon copy of me. Its one of the reasons I have stayed in California for so long, although the environment is becoming more and more hostile here for successful business owners, and if continues to get worse then I will have to move elsewhere.../shrug

Presentation is the Master Key to winning friends and influencing people. You and I are kindred spirits when it comes to being too blunt.
Sean

 

[Blade96]

Suit yourself. luckykboxer. I can tell you're not here to make friends. or to care about anyone's 'fragile sense of self worth' I do. I go on the internet not just to discuss topics but also to meet people and make friends. I made quite a few friends on here and other forums as welltry to be nice to others and write my thoughts in a way so that i dont come across as insulting or insensitive. I do care about others feelings. and I do care about how they see me, as well. I see that as a good thing, not something bad.

but let me tell you something. I have been depressed most of my life, was a victim of abuse, grew up with a dysfunctional family, and was on anti - depressants for some years while I was getting me degree. I got off them when i started doing better than I met my ex. It came back, i was depressed for months, went back to see the doctor, and he told me and my mom depression often happens in cycles. You can be depressed then seem to be doing better than it can happen again. And depression can run in families, I have had relatives with it, my brother battled it for more than ten years, he went to a psychologist and was diagnosed as not only depressed but having social phobia because he talked to the doc and he was exhibiting all the signs of the two, that and depression. It was horrible, I was fraid for him because I know what it is like. I and my bro have had suicidal thoughtas, and I have been fighting it for most of my life. trying to deal with it, while I was fighting, i did my univ degree. Now I'm considering my Masters, so please don't refer to me as weak. My bro and I are still here, he has a Daughter and a gf he loves, and he is working, he is doing better, he loves his daughter (now one year old) snd of course his cat Zoey, who's been with him now ten years and has been there helping him with his problems. And my three cats had been helping me since I was a child.

while I struggle to build my life i got my degree. When Christmas holidays were over I returned to my dojo to do my Shotokan, knowing that my ex and his new gf trains there, and it hurts to have to see him and have anything to do with him (his gf's nice and i dont mind her very much) I take my anti - depressants and still train and consider my Masters, I dont think those are signs of someone being 'weak' and/or 'lazy' and or ' giving up' and 'not trying to better or continue on with their life, do you?

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Suit yourself. luckykboxer. I can tell you're not here to make friends. or to care about anyone's 'fragile sense of self worth' I do. I go on the internet not just to discuss topics but also to meet people and make friends. I made quite a few friends on here and other forums as welltry to be nice to others and write my thoughts in a way so that i dont come across as insulting or insensitive. I do care about others feelings. and I do care about how they see me, as well. I see that as a good thing, not something bad.

To each their own, I never said it was bad, or wrong to make friends over the internet, I simply said it was not why I was here. Do what makes you happy, I do not have any interest in actively searching out peopel to be my friends here, I have a completely different agenda, I am here to pass the time, to read information on different arts I might be interested in, and apparantly to get caught up in social issues, poilitical issues, etc. the last I can do without to be honest, but I get some good information from here on occasion.

but let me tell you something. I have been depressed most of my life, was a victim of abuse, grew up with a dysfunctional family, and was on anti - depressants for some years while I was getting me degree. I got off them when i started doing better than I met my ex. It came back, i was depressed for months, went back to see the doctor, and he told me and my mom depression often happens in cycles. You can be depressed then seem to be doing better than it can happen again. And depression can run in families, I have had relatives with it, my brother battled it for more than ten years, he went to a psychologist and was diagnosed as not only depressed but having social phobia because he talked to the doc and he was exhibiting all the signs of the two, that and depression. It was horrible, I was fraid for him because I know what it is like. I and my bro have had suicidal thoughtas, and I have been fighting it for most of my life. trying to deal with it, while I was fighting, i did my univ degree. Now I'm considering my Masters, so please don't refer to me as weak. My bro and I are still here, he has a Daughter and a gf he loves, and he is working, he is doing better, he loves his daughter (now one year old) snd of course his cat Zoey, who's been with him now ten years and has been there helping him with his problems. And my three cats had been helping me since I was a child.

It sounds like a bunch of mess I wouldn't want to deal with, but I do not have any pity for you, and It does not change my mind on what I think. It soudns to me like a bunch of bad decisions, and issues that are correctable and avoidable. I know thats not what you want to hear, but I am not going to lie to sugar coat anything. I don't wish you any bad luck or ill will, and I hope you can get out of the messy cycle you seem to be in. But that is going to be for you to do, not me, and not anyone else on the internet.

while I struggle to build my life i got my degree. When Christmas holidays were over I returned to my dojo to do my Shotokan, knowing that my ex and his new gf trains there, and it hurts to have to see him and have anything to do with him (his gf's nice and i dont mind her very much) I take my anti - depressants and still train and consider my Masters, I dont think those are signs of someone being 'weak' and/or 'lazy' and or ' giving up' and 'not trying to better or continue on with their life, do you?

I can't tell what you are doing from what you say on the internet. I don't consider school hard at all, I don't consider training anything but a pleasure, so I can't say one way or the other is you are lazy or not. I do think that depression is a weakness, not an illness, and I think that it can effect event he strongest of people at times, the key isn't that it effects you in my opinion but how you deal with it and then move on. I think I made my thougths pretty clear on the subject, and anymore discussion is just going to be redundant until something new is introduced. Like I said I wish you no ill will, so if you choose to take that way its your issue not mine.

 

[Blade96]

I dont wish you ill will either.

But I know a woman who's daughter (a young adult like myself) who had to be hospitalized for her depression after her father died like about a year and a half ago or something.

I wasnt hospitalized, I chose to go the drug route. And I had tried therapy but all they did was (as I had mentioned before) call me autistic and things like that. I was diagnosed with depression as well and thats what got me on the pills. But none of them were very good to talk to.

Bad desicions? The fact I was bullied and abused all 10 grade levels of school by teachers as well as peers, severely, plus kindergarten as well was the result of bad descisions? I got abused by my ex because I made a bad decision? It was not my fault he hurt me, I was nothing but nice to him. The fact everyone including my own parents called me lazy when i couldnt do my work in school (or doing my university degree, it took me ten years to get it) because of my depression meant i was just lazy or weak? or the fact I didnt pass my orange belt test in Karate because i was depressed and didnt have the energy to do well or train? Bullying and abuse is avoidable and correctable? yes it was avoidable all right - I ended up having to quit high school because nobody would help not even the staff at the school who knew what was going diwn and did nothing about it. I didnt get my high school diploma because of that. You do know the effects can be lifelong, right?

But again, like I said, suit yourself.

 

[granfire]

I dont wish you ill will either.

But I know a woman who's daughter (a young adult like myself) who had to be hospitalized for her depression after her father died like about a year and a half ago or something.

I wasnt hospitalized, I chose to go the drug route. And I had tried therapy but all they did was (as I had mentioned before) call me autistic and things like that. I was diagnosed with depression as well and thats what got me on the pills. But none of them were very good to talk to.

Bad desicions? The fact I was bullied and abused all 10 grade levels of school by teachers as well as peers, severely, plus kindergarten as well was the result of bad descisions? The fact everyone including my own parents called me lazy when i couldnt do my work in school (or doing my university degree, it took me ten years to get it) because of my depression meant i was just lazy or weak? or the fact I didnt pass my orange belt test in Karate because i was depressed and didnt have the energy to do well or train? Bullying and abuse is avoidable and correctable? yes it was avoidable all right - I ended up having to quit high school because nobody would help not even the staff at the school who knew what was going diwn and did nothing about it. I didnt get my high school diploma because of that. You do know the effects can be lifelong, right?

But again, like I said, suit yourself.

Like many things it can't be appreciated if you have not walked a few steps in those shoes. Sometimes the indominable spirit means getting out of bed in the morning.

 

[Blade96]

Like many things it can't be appreciated if you have not walked a few steps in those shoes. Sometimes the indominable spirit means getting out of bed in the morning.

And I find it hard even to do that. But I make myself do it, because there are things that I love and makes me happy. Like doing karate, and my cat Princess. And I am currently seeking an appointment with the guy in charge to find out all about the History masters program at university.

 

[granfire]

And I find it hard even to do that. But I make myself do it, because there are things that I love and makes me happy. Like doing karate, and my cat Princess. And I am currently seeking an appointment with the guy in charge to find out all about the History masters program at university.

Exactly.

It is not easy to describe how it feels when the act of just being zaps every ounce of energy from you. It is not a fun place to be, pun not intended.

 

[Blade96]

Exactly.

It is not easy to describe how it feels when the act of just being zaps every ounce of energy from you. It is not a fun place to be, pun not intended.

and when you have a lack of support system around you - there are hardly any people i can talk to and confide in - it makes it much hader. Cause you're there by yourself trying to deal.

At least these forums let me talk about it my past and stuff and people here and on another martial arts forum have been mostly supportive. Love all of ya. and thanks :angel:

 

[Langenschwert]

I do think that depression is a weakness, not an illness

This may sound terse, but it's not intended as such.

There's a difference between "feeling depressed" and having clinical depression. If having clinical depression is a "weakness", then having a broken leg isn't really an injury, it's just a "weakness" and really, one should just suck it up and walk on the damn thing. Casts are for weenies, and a crutch is well, "just a crutch, man". Clinical depression is a physiological state, not an emotional one. You can't just suck it up and move on and "Get over it". I've known people with incredibly strong minds who were crushed by clinical depression. It's as much an injury as a broken arm is, and requires medical care.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

This may sound terse, but it's not intended as such.

There's a difference between "feeling depressed" and having clinical depression. If having clinical depression is a "weakness", then having a broken leg isn't really an injury, it's just a "weakness" and really, one should just suck it up and walk on the damn thing. Casts are for weenies, and a crutch is well, "just a crutch, man". Clinical depression is a physiological state, not an emotional one. You can't just suck it up and move on and "Get over it". I've known people with incredibly strong minds who were crushed by clinical depression. It's as much an injury as a broken arm is, and requires medical care.

Best regards,

-Mark

Ya apparantly you missed the entire rest of the conversation before that. I have never seen any study that shows that medical treatment works any better then not using drugs. I also would state that the vast majority of people who are institutionalized have more then depression wrong with them. Like I said before I am perfectly willing to change my stance, show me the laboratory test that shows depression, or show me the documentation that it does in fact require medical intervention to correct. I have seen nothing that shows irrefutable evidence that it does, and until I do I will continue to believe what I believe.

 

[Steve]

This may sound terse, but it's not intended as such.

There's a difference between "feeling depressed" and having clinical depression. If having clinical depression is a "weakness", then having a broken leg isn't really an injury, it's just a "weakness" and really, one should just suck it up and walk on the damn thing. Casts are for weenies, and a crutch is well, "just a crutch, man". Clinical depression is a physiological state, not an emotional one. You can't just suck it up and move on and "Get over it". I've known people with incredibly strong minds who were crushed by clinical depression. It's as much an injury as a broken arm is, and requires medical care.

Best regards,

-Mark

Mark, I said almost exactly the same thing. Great minds think alike, and all that. As I said later, I think that he'll have to hear it from someone he knows personally and considers credible.