Congresswoman Giffords Shot in Tucson

[Empty Hands]

and look at you mr sympathetic, wishing mental illnesses on others... whats with you people?...you make me sick, but I still dont wish you harm... lame.

Read it again, more slowly this time. I didn't wish anything on you.

 

[Empty Hands]

Now there are some bulls eyes, oh, bonus, "ripe targets for Democrats"

You're not answering the point, which is that Palin herself called the marks "bullseyes", making the argument that they are "surveyeor's marks" rather fatuous. What the Democrats do or do not do will not change that point.

I don't think Palin is responsible for the shooting. However, you don't get to just pretend that up is down and left is right then change the subject when someone calls you on it.

 

[Empty Hands]

I do not believe that depression is a mental illness, I think its someone being to weak minded to break themselves out of a funk.

Then you are stupendously ignorant on the subject and no one should pay the slightest attention to your opinions on mental illness. Blunt enough for you? You don't know anything about it, you have no experience with it, and you have no experience with anyone suffering through it. You have no words worth listening to on the subject.

Would you spout off on quantum mechanics without knowing anything about it? Would you claim that the theory of relativity was nonsense without even bothering to read it first? So why is this different?

Again, better hope none of this happens to you or those you love. What you sow, you reap a thousandfold. That isn't a wish for you either, so don't go off on that tangent. What I wish is for you to know something about those you presume to judge so you don't do your part in making their lives harder.

 

[harlan]

Yes.

Then you are stupendously ignorant on the subject and no one should pay the slightest attention to your opinions on mental illness. Blunt enough for you? You don't know anything about it, you have no experience with it, and you have no experience with anyone suffering through it. You have no words worth listening to on the subject.

Again, better hope none of this happens to you or those you love. What you sow, you reap a thousandfold. That isn't a wish for you either, so don't go off on that tangent. What I wish is for you to know something about those you presume to judge so you don't do your part in making their lives harder.

"I wish people would have taken a better notice of him and gotten him help. ... He had nobody, and that's not a nice place to be."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

 

[ballen0351]

Yes.



"I wish people would have taken a better notice of him and gotten him help. ... He had nobody, and that's not a nice place to be."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

Hmmmm So he was a nut everyone knew and he should have been put away. Who would have guessed. Now people are dead because its politically incorrect to lock up crazy people.

 

[Empty Hands]

Now people are dead because its politically incorrect to lock up crazy people.

It is not politically incorrect to lock up the mentally ill. The big push to get people out of mental institutions and on to the streets occurred under President Reagen, for monetary reasons. Here is a page with an overview and links to the guidelines for involuntary commitment in Arizona. I don't see anything on there about "political correctness", only a fairly reasonable set of guidelines balancing self/community danger with individual liberty.

Not everything is about your parochial political concerns.

 

[ballen0351]

It is not politically incorrect to lock up the mentally ill. The big push to get people out of mental institutions and on to the streets occurred under President Reagen, for monetary reasons. Here is a page with an overview and links to the guidelines for involuntary commitment in Arizona. I don't see anything on there about "political correctness", only a fairly reasonable set of guidelines balancing self/community danger with individual liberty.

Not everything is about your parochial political concerns.

Has nothing to do with my Political Concerns has EVERYTHING to do with public safety. I dont need a page on Involuntary Commitments I deal with them on a daily basis. The system is broken and needs to be fixed but nobody wants to talk about it for fear of sounding insensitive to the crazys. Even after this incident people would rather focus on "Did you hear what Palin said" then the real problem which is there are 1000's of people just like this guy all over this country that are ticking time bombs.

 

[billc]

There may be evidence that this kid was stalking the congresswoman years before Palin was ever a well known public figure. Someone pointed out that there is evidence that the kid was attending her meetings way before Palin was picked by Mccain for the v.p. position. Palin and the tea party had nothing to do with this. Political rhetoric had nothing to do with this. Anyone who says that they did is a political hack, trying to score points off of the suffering of these victims.

 

[billc]

Here is an articel that looks at what happened at columbine. The two kids just wanted to cause as much destruction as possible, without anyone specifically targeted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/17/columbine-massacre-gun-crime-us

uch of what we reported, though, was simply wrong, as attested by tens of thousands of official documents and other evidence that has at last seen the light of day after years of suppression by the local authorities. As the Colorado-based journalist Dave Cullen tells in his gripping and authoritative new book Columbine, Harris and Klebold had plenty of friends, did pretty well in school, were not members of the Trenchcoat Mafia, did not listen to Manson, were not bullied, harboured no specific grudges against any one group, and did not "snap" because of some last-straw traumatic event. All those stories were the product of hysteria, ignorance and flailing guesswork in the first few hours and days.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Then you are stupendously ignorant on the subject and no one should pay the slightest attention to your opinions on mental illness. Blunt enough for you? You don't know anything about it, you have no experience with it, and you have no experience with anyone suffering through it. You have no words worth listening to on the subject.

Would you spout off on quantum mechanics without knowing anything about it? Would you claim that the theory of relativity was nonsense without even bothering to read it first? So why is this different?

Again, better hope none of this happens to you or those you love. What you sow, you reap a thousandfold. That isn't a wish for you either, so don't go off on that tangent. What I wish is for you to know something about those you presume to judge so you don't do your part in making their lives harder.

Oh get off your high horse, you have no idea what you are talking about either, and there is no evidence that depression is treated any better with medication then without.
Its all a crap shoot and every study I have ever seen on the subject has just as much on one side as the other. Plus the failure rate of people diagnosed with depression treated with drugs is astronomical, so get your facts straight. I can admit when I am ignorant on something, but you seem to think your a professional and I would be surprised if you are not as ignorant on the subject as I am.

 

[granfire]

Oh get off your high horse, you have no idea what you are talking about either, and there is no evidence that depression is treated any better with medication then without.
Its all a crap shoot and every study I have ever seen on the subject has just as much on one side as the other. Plus the failure rate of people diagnosed with depression treated with drugs is astronomical, so get your facts straight. I can admit when I am ignorant on something, but you seem to think your a professional and I would be surprised if you are not as ignorant on the subject as I am.

Whoa, Cowboy, got anything to pack that up?

 

[Sukerkin]

Lucky (and others) I fear you are going beyond "being blunt" at this stage.

I would suggest a little calmer reflection on what you are going to say before you put fingers to keyboard might help. It's the one advantage you have with communicating in this way rather than face to face - time to think before blurting out the first thing that comes into your head.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Mentor

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Whoa, Cowboy, got anything to pack that up?

Why do I have to do the footwork? I am not trying to convince anyone, If you want to change my opinion then you provide the irrefutable research.
Its pretty easy to go get research that backs what I say. Just go do a little work if it matters to you.

 

[granfire]

Why do I have to do the footwork? I am not trying to convince anyone, If you want to change my opinion then you provide the irrefutable research.
Its pretty easy to go get research that backs what I say. Just go do a little work if it matters to you.

Like I said, whoa Cowboy. Point me to what you were reading so I can see where you come from...that way I will reserve my judgment over this outrageous statement until later.

Since obviously you have not dealt with depression in any shape.....

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Like I said, whoa Cowboy. Point me to what you were reading so I can see where you come from...that way I will reserve my judgment over this outrageous statement until later.

Since obviously you have not dealt with depression in any shape.....

Oh we have dealt with depression in our family and friends..
we just didnt go deal with drugs and doctors to get over them.
You want me to call youo a cute little nickname too? Hows Chuckles? you can call me Cowboy, Ill call you chuckles?? Or you want to try to address the actually conversation, and not be a hypocrite? seems some of you guys get all butt hurt if someone calls you a name, but when you feel someone doesnt side with you then its AOK to call them whatever you choose, to insinuate they are gun firing, wild west cowboys, or hitler inspired genocidal maniacs... its really only a tactic that works with idiots, so you let me know what you want to do there Granfire... I can call you Granfire, or your real name, and then we can argue about how we dont like each others opinions, or we can call each other cowboy and chuckles and argue about hwo we dont like each others opinions, you let me know.. Im fine either way.

 

[Steve]

gotcha my bad, not yours...
no I dont think they can just will cancer, or aids, or something similar away.
I guess to be blunt I dont believe the hype. I think the terminology of mental illness is abused and overused to give people a reason to be lazy and not try to be better people.
I do not believe that depression is a mental illness, I think its someone being to weak minded to break themselves out of a funk. I think that horrible things can happen to people that break their spirit, but once again I do not consider that a mental illness, and thats when family and friends need to step in and support a person... not drugs, not doctors, and not my tax dollars.
I have a cousin who lost his wife unexpectedly to a brain anuerism(spelling i know..) hes upset, its a couple months later and he is getting better, now is that grief, or depression, or both?
I think its natural to be upset, and depressed, and I also think its natural to find what is important and fight back from that and move forward.
But I do not think its a mental illness.
does that clarify my answer for you?

I think that this is where the disconnect is. There's a difference between being depressed and being diagnosed with depression. Depression is a state that we've all experienced. Periods of grief and mourning, stressful times, it happens. We've all been there. It's this familiarity that actually can lead to misconceptions. Add the malingerers and people who self diagnose inappropriately (I have OCD or I suffer from depression) that skews the perception of what it means to be clinically depressed. I've seen both and it's pretty clear to me that there is a real difference between someone who is depressed and someone who suffers from depression.

Telling someone that they just get over mental illness is like telling someone to walk off a broken leg. Sure, the leg might heal on its own eventually, but if you get some actual medical help, it'll heal faster and better than if you try to pretend nothing's wrong. Or, worst case, the leg never heals.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I'm not suggesting that anyone change their opinions... just be open to the idea that you don't know as much about mental illness as you think.

 

[Empty Hands]

I can admit when I am ignorant on something, but you seem to think your a professional and I would be surprised if you are not as ignorant on the subject as I am.

I'm a molecular neuroscientist.

Interested in reading some journal articles? I hope you're up on your striatal circuitry and the dorsal raphe serotonergic system.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I'm a molecular neuroscientist.

Interested in reading some journal articles? I hope you're up on your striatal circuitry and the dorsal raphe serotonergic system.

So this would be like me thinking I know everything about Kajukenbo since I am a Black Belt in Kenpo Karate... similar, but not the same.

Oh so sorry that you dont think I understand medical terms, my moms a doctor, my sister is working on her doctorate at USC, Im surrounded by doctors in one field or another in my family, so your little digs do nothing more then show your pompous attitude.. you think that your going to get your little buddies here to chuckle, thinking you pulled one over on the guy who doesnt agree with you? See if I were to do something like that you and your friends would be screaming I was a bully, or using bully tactics.. its pathetic.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I think that this is where the disconnect is. There's a difference between being depressed and being diagnosed with depression. Depression is a state that we've all experienced. Periods of grief and mourning, stressful times, it happens. We've all been there. It's this familiarity that actually can lead to misconceptions. Add the malingerers and people who self diagnose inappropriately (I have OCD or I suffer from depression) that skews the perception of what it means to be clinically depressed. I've seen both and it's pretty clear to me that there is a real difference between someone who is depressed and someone who suffers from depression.

Telling someone that they just get over mental illness is like telling someone to walk off a broken leg. Sure, the leg might heal on its own eventually, but if you get some actual medical help, it'll heal faster and better than if you try to pretend nothing's wrong. Or, worst case, the leg never heals.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I'm not suggesting that anyone change their opinions... just be open to the idea that you don't know as much about mental illness as you think.

yes this is were we are differing in our thoughts.
I am not convinced that depression at any level is an illness that is necessary to have medical and professional invervention for.
You and several others here are obviously on the other side of that fence.
I appreciate that, I just don't buy into it.
And as far as the mental illness knowledge goes, even the most esteemed experts are changing their minds on things daily, and proving past theories incorrect. So even though in the field the prevailing theory is that it requires medical invervention, It is not the only theory, and it is not proven to be the only method, and in fact in when medically treated there are all kinds of failures with the medications, and the results.
So if someone wants to tell me I am wrong, then I am going to need some type of facts that are irrefutable to show me where I am wrong... show me that and I will be the firs tone to say yep I am wrong, thanks for informing me.
The problem is these people want me to jump on their bandwagon, and accept whatever they say as gospel. IT doesn't work that way.

 

[granfire]

Oh we have dealt with depression in our family and friends..
we just didnt go deal with drugs and doctors to get over them.
You want me to call youo a cute little nickname too? Hows Chuckles? you can call me Cowboy, Ill call you chuckles?? Or you want to try to address the actually conversation, and not be a hypocrite? seems some of you guys get all butt hurt if someone calls you a name, but when you feel someone doesnt side with you then its AOK to call them whatever you choose, to insinuate they are gun firing, wild west cowboys, or hitler inspired genocidal maniacs... its really only a tactic that works with idiots, so you let me know what you want to do there Granfire... I can call you Granfire, or your real name, and then we can argue about how we dont like each others opinions, or we can call each other cowboy and chuckles and argue about hwo we dont like each others opinions, you let me know.. Im fine either way.

Call me what you want, just don't call me late for dinner.

So why are you ranting about name calling yet?