Conditioning the hands & feet

[Dirty Dog]

In this thread, Gwai Lo Dan made the comment

To me, the philosophy in TKD of breaking without extensive conditioning is crazy. E.g., people do no hand training/conditioning, then hope it's the concrete that breaks and not their hand.

The statement bothers me on a couple levels.
1 - Is the practice of breaking without first conditioning really all that common?
2 - Is it really part of the philosophy of TKD to do this?

So... if your school breaks, is it something you practice for? What sort of conditioning do you do?

 

[Earl Weiss]

I don't know whatr "flavor" of TKD was referred to but "Dallyon" which is conditioning is part of the "cycle" of Taekwon-Do.

I would say that breaking without coinditioning is common but then again breaking BS Boards is common as well. So;

1. Yes.
2. No.

 

[StudentCarl]

I think 'extensive' breaking without 'extensive' conditioning would be unwise, but I don't think occasional breaking is bad if done within reason. I don't have the historical knowledge that my seniors do, but I think such conditioning comes mostly from the karate world.

From a practical point of view, I'm not a fan of trying to condition a part of the body to survive hitting bone. If I punch forehead, then I screwed up. I should hit a softer target or use a weapon that is made for heavy contact. I do like breaking as a test of technique.


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[Gwai Lo Dan]

In this thread, Gwai Lo Dan made the comment

The statement bothers me on a couple levels.
1 - Is the practice of breaking without first conditioning really all that common?
2 - Is it really part of the philosophy of TKD to do this?

So... if your school breaks, is it something you practice for? What sort of conditioning do you do?

Since I am being quoted...I should not have said "the philosophy". It's not really a philosophy, but what I see as common practice at schools.

Personally, in coloured belt tests I've broken boards with elbows, knife hands, and ridge hands, and was never asked to try it on some thinner boards first, or even against a heavy bag.

I was simply told "for your belt the board breaking will be ------". Being the cautious type, and having a heavy bag, I went home and worked on the technique on the heavy bag, trying to make sure I hit flush, in a coordinated fashion to generate power. Everyone else that I knew would just show up and try it for the first time on the 1 inch boards.

 

[MAist25]

It really depends on the type of break you are going for. To break a single 1 inch pine board with a punch, really requires no conditioning. All it requires is proper technique. Conditioning becomes much more important when trying to execute more difficult breaks against harder objects or a higher quantity of boards. Punching through a single board really doesn't place much impact on the fist. However, going through 4 boards puts up much more resistance against the fist, to a point where not only proper technique becomes important, but a decent level of conditioning and experience hitting hard objects can greatly reduce the risk of injury to the breaker. However, proper technique is always the number one most important thing for executing breaks.

 

[Manny]

We don't do hand condition at dojang, me do foot conditioning usin the palchaguis (mitts) and domys (kicking shields), we have heavy bags but we don't use them ofthen. I think that with all the things here about breaking hard objects is good we start this kind of posts. As MAist25 wrote breacking one inch pine boards is not so dificult to do for a teen or adult using proper technique but going far beyond we need to conditioning or fists, feet, elbows, etc and go step by step.

I learned the lesson and right now I will hold up and think twice, yes I will use one inch thick boards but will watch closely to the wood grain before buying the boards and seek for dry wood and keep my power breaks no more then two boards at the time and this will be my limit for safety reasons and I will work with the heavy bag.

As some slim guy said once in a movie... boards don't hit back, I think breacking hard objects is something silly but is something we must do in some places like tests or shows, so if we are not professionals or breacking champions then we must play safe for our own health/safety.

Manny

 

[jks9199]

How much and how thoroughly you condition your weapons depends on why you're training. If you're training for fun -- you don't need to do much. Enough so that you don't get hurt doing routine things like sparring and periodic, reasonable breaking. But if you're training for functional use -- you have to condition the weapons. If you don't have the strength and conditioning of the weapon, it will fail you when you try to use it. I don't use the various extended knuckle punches of our Cobra system; I haven't conditioned my hands to use them. I have conditioned my arms, my shins, my elbows, and my fists for the strikes that I do use.

Conditioning the weapon does not inherently mean crippling yourself, however. Do it right, do it gradually over time, and your body will harden to it's use without doing long term harm. Rush the process, do "big" breaks without hardening the weapon to that use, and you'll likely end up paying a price, in both the long and short term.

 

[Earl Weiss]

....................However, proper technique is always the number one most important thing for executing breaks.

Hitting in the center would be a very close 2nd.

 

[Buka]

I haven't done any breaking in a long time. I'm not even sure if the black belts under me teach it any more. (I guess I should ask them...duh) We used to do all kinds of breaks. Mostly for fun, I think.

But I realized something for the first time reading this thread. I never once broke anything using my left hand. Never even tried. Damn, the things you learn on the forum.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I must ask how much most TKD schools teach hand techniques and if they only concentrate on the feet why are hand breaks required. NOTE: It has been over 30 years since I was in a TKD class so I know things have changed

 

[MAist25]

^^^ Hand techniques are just as important as kicking techniques in Taekwondo. Maybe not to someone who concentrates only on the sport of TKD, but to someone training in the martial art of Taekwondo, hand techniques are extremely important.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Hitting in the center would be a very close 2nd.

I think I recall a video which said that the optimum place to hit would be center longitudinally, but toward the edge laterally. Thoughts?

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

To break a single 1 inch pine board with a punch, really requires no conditioning. All it requires is proper technique.

Agreed. For me, I just wanted to get proper technique (e.g., not hitting with my thumb in a ridgehand strike). The problem is you do 1 board for a test, then 2 boards the next time....then where is the limit before you hurt yourself due to no conditioning??

 

[MAist25]

Agreed. For me, I just wanted to get proper technique (e.g., not hitting with my thumb in a ridgehand strike). The problem is you do 1 board for a test, then 2 boards the next time....then where is the limit before you hurt yourself due to no conditioning??

This is something that has no concrete answer. It will be different for everybody. But if you are about to execute a break and you have any doubts about whether or not you are conditioned well enough, then you probably aren't.

 

[RTKDCMB]

The problem is you do 1 board for a test, then 2 boards the next time....then where is the limit before you hurt yourself due to no conditioning??

Usually about the time you say ow.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Agreed. For me, I just wanted to get proper technique (e.g., not hitting with my thumb in a ridgehand strike). The problem is you do 1 board for a test, then 2 boards the next time....then where is the limit before you hurt yourself due to no conditioning??

Since the tensile strength of wood varies widely by type, there is no quantitative answer.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I must ask how much most TKD schools teach hand techniques and if they only concentrate on the feet why are hand breaks required. NOTE: It has been over 30 years since I was in a TKD class so I know things have changed

Difficult if not impossible to quantify what "most" do but since the large majority seems KKW / WTF style based the hand techniques and breaks are probably not prevalent at those schools. For Schools that are ITF or in the USA, USTF, breaking is a requirement.

 

[Thousand Kicks]

In my years of training, every shcool I have attended has breaking as a requirement for testing (at all levels). However, I have never once had an instructor spend a class on conditioning the hands or feet. I always looked at it like this. You know you have to break as a part of your test so conditioning is up to the student.

One of the biggest failings of modern day/commercialized martial arts training I see is that students want to be told what to do step by step. I have had instructors tell me the importance of conditioning the hands and feet, but never spend time with me doing it. There isn't enough time in classes to do everything. Conditioning is up to the student. As a result, it is largely ignored.

 

[Thousand Kicks]

I think I recall a video which said that the optimum place to hit would be center longitudinally, but toward the edge laterally. Thoughts?

I have not heard this before. I have always heard that the striking point should hit center of the board. You do have to be aware of the direction of the wood grain.

Breaking can be misleading. Take two boards and stack them so the grains are perpendicular...you might break your leg before you break those boards.

 

[Manny]

I think punching/kicking the heavy bag could be useful for strengten the arms,wrists,fists, shins, insteps etc,etc. We don'y need to have killer hardening sessions unless we are going to compete in power breacking contests. I don't have the time to do hardening training, however using the heavy bag or the kicking shield once a week can be usefull in feet and fists.

Manny