Combat between Kiai master and MMA fighter

[K-man]

ok. So you accept anecdotes as proof?

I don't ask for proof and I don't need proof unless it is someone with no experience in the field making claims that are at odds with my first hand knowledge.

For example, Dirty Dog has worked in ER since Adam was a boy. If he posts anything regarding emergency medicine I'll accept what he says without question. A number of the guys are LEOs. When they talk from their experience I listen. Guys like Brian VanCise and Rich Parsons are RB guys. I'm more than happy to learn from their experience. I happen to have made a reasonably intensive study of kata and kata bunkai. I would like to think I can contribute something in that field.

But when it comes to something of which I have no knowledge I shut up and take on board what others with the experience are saying. If I have a sensible question I will ask it but I don't go out of my way to derail the thread by demanding proof of everything that is posted that is outside my understanding.

Now if someone with no knowledge in a particular area keeps posting information that is mostly garbage then I'm happy to believe that what they are posting of their own training is probably just as bad. Therefore you lose credibility by posting stuff that those of us training it know first hand is wrong. We don't have to prove anything as I have said before. I don't give a toss whether you want proof or not. If you want proof go and find it yourself. If you don't want proof then don't ask for it. How much time have we wasted supplying video and making detailed replies just to have it dismissed out of hand?

As to the straw man. The number of times I have gone out of my way to post information that might satisfy your questions only to have it distorted and quoted back out of context means that I won't be bothered doing it again.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Ok the proof that you are accepting though is the statement "i saw it" from a random person on the internet. Who as you said could be a 13 year old with an active imagination.

I have provided the means for you to see I am older than a 13 year old in the gallery.

But it goes a long way towards explaining why people can knock a whole class over with magic.

And do you think I fall into that category?

 

[drop bear]

I have provided the means for you to see I am older than a 13 year old in the gallery.


And do you think I fall into that category?

yes and no. What I have explained is not my concept but an important logical step that really should be taken into account.

So that we discuss what can be believed and what we can hold suspect regardless as to how high esteem we hold the person saying it.

Imagine Kai master. He is an expert in his field. And I am not so by what standard do we hold my evidence that it is rubbish via a you tube clip and his personal testimony that chi balls work due to the many years studying and applying it?

 

[drop bear]

In fact we could not show that something like chi balls are just plain crazy talk.

Bear with me here.

Ok there is a video of him being smashed.
Answer. Chi balls are for the street

How do you know chi balls work in the street when we just saw you get smashed?.
Answer. I have used them in self defence situations.

Ok but that sounds a bit unbelievable can you show evidence.
Answer my first hand account is evidence.

Ok but we don't see chi balls working for people anywhere.
Answer. Because you have not studied chi balls and do not understand them.

Ok but I have a bit of common sense and chi balls sound silly.
Answer common sense is not extensive training in chi balls again you cannot understand what you have not studied.

I don't think there would be a way to break that logic cycle but it validates the effectiveness of basically magic powers.

 

[RTKDCMB]

yes and no. What I have explained is not my concept but an important logical step that really should be taken into account.

So that we discuss what can be believed and what we can hold suspect regardless as to how high esteem we hold the person saying it.

Imagine Kai master. He is an expert in his field. And I am not so by what standard do we hold my evidence that it is rubbish via a you tube clip and his personal testimony that chi balls work due to the many years studying and applying it?

You use your intelligence and evaluate the claims based on your assessment on whether the claims are logical or not. If I made claims that I was invincible or could knock people out by throwing Chi Balls at them then anyone can rightly assume that I am a liar and a fraud. If someone has been training in a martial art of self defense for 25 years or more and claims that he and other people from his art are capable of defending themselves and in fact have done so and that person can show you videos of them training yet can still find both claims are equivalent than you have failed to use logic.

What you have done is commit a string of logical fallacies to support you preconceived notion that your martial art is the only style of martial art that works and that every other style is inferior.You see the Kiai master's video and then try to paint every other martial art with the same brush.

You are like an armchair expert:
Urban Dictionary Armchair Expert

For all anyone knows you are a 13 year old boy wearing a Tapout T-shirt who watches MMA fights on YouTube and then goes on martial arts forums to talk big, a living example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I don't think that is true but you have provided no evidence to the contrary.

 

[RTKDCMB]

In fact we could not show that something like chi balls are just plain crazy talk.

Bear with me here.

Ok there is a video of him being smashed.
Answer. Chi balls are for the street

How do you know chi balls work in the street when we just saw you get smashed?.
Answer. I have used them in self defence situations.

Ok but that sounds a bit unbelievable can you show evidence.
Answer my first hand account is evidence.

Ok but we don't see chi balls working for people anywhere.
Answer. Because you have not studied chi balls and do not understand them.

Ok but I have a bit of common sense and chi balls sound silly.
Answer common sense is not extensive training in chi balls again you cannot understand what you have not studied.

I don't think there would be a way to break that logic cycle but it validates the effectiveness of basically magic powers.

Yes you can, Chi balls are not consistent with physics, physical techniques from a martial art of self defense are.

You can not do tests on imaginary Chi balls to apply to real life.

With this you can, just apply punch on board to persons head instead:

The two things (Chi ball and punch) are not equivalent.

 

[drop bear]

Yes you can, Chi balls are not consistent with physics, physical techniques from a martial art of self defense are.

You can not do tests on imaginary Chi balls to apply to real life.

With this you can, just apply punch on board to persons head instead:

The two things (Chi ball and punch) are not equivalent.

Because if it didn't happen on youtube it didn't happen.

 

[drop bear]

You use your intelligence and evaluate the claims based on your assessment on whether the claims are logical or not. If I made claims that I was invincible or could knock people out by throwing Chi Balls at them then anyone can rightly assume that I am a liar and a fraud.

ok apart from just making an assumption. How are you getting to that conclusion.

In theory we are supposed to approach martial arts ideas with an open mind.

 

[RTKDCMB]

ok apart from just making an assumption. How are you getting to that conclusion.

Physics.

In theory we are supposed to approach martial arts ideas with an open mind.

There's a difference between having an open mind and believing every wild claim you hear.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Because if it didn't happen on youtube it didn't happen.

I am just using your standard of evidence. That is me doing the punch by the way.

 

[K-man]

In theory we are supposed to approach martial arts ideas with an open mind.

Really? Except that to change your 'open mind' you need irrefutable proof!

Which leads us to your mantra .....

Because if it didn't happen on youtube it didn't happen.

Yeah, right!

 

[drop bear]

Really? Except that to change your 'open mind' you need irrefutable proof!

Which leads us to your mantra .....
Yeah, right!

proof there becomes the difference between what we Think is right and what is right.

Otherwise we have dogma. Which generally sounds a lot better.

There seems to be this idea that I hate these unfounded martial arts ideas. I would love for chi balls to be a real thing. But it just isn't.

 

[drop bear]

Physics.



There's a difference between having an open mind and believing every wild claim you hear.

You can't just say physics. I mean ok chi balls work because "physics"

Nice board break by the way.

 

[RTKDCMB]

You can't just say physics. I mean ok chi balls work because "physics"

No, Physics says Chi balls DON'T work. That is one way to separate fact from fiction, by using science.

Nice board break by the way.

Thanks.

 

[drop bear]

No, Physics says Chi balls DON'T work. That is one way to separate fact from fiction, by using science.



Thanks.

Lol. No physics does not say chi balls don't work not even in upper case.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Lol. No physics does not say chi balls don't work not even in upper case.

Have you ever studied physics?

 

[drop bear]

Either that is me or I have paid a homeless guy to hold a sign

 

[drop bear]

Have you ever studied physics?

Poorly. Never got to anything about chi balls

 

[RTKDCMB]

Poorly. Never got to anything about chi balls

Well I did an entire degree (a double major with chemistry) and the subject of Chi balls never came up.

 

[RTKDCMB]

View attachment 19226

Either that is me or I have paid a homeless guy to hold a sign

Now all you need to do is show a video of yourself doing something martial arty. You can hold up your little sign if you like.