students first tournament

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
733
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
I have been wondering for a while now if it is wrong for me to hope some of my younger (pre teen) students get low scores in forms and get their backsides handed to themin sparring in their first tournament which comes up in 4 weeks.
I know as an instructor this may sound terrible but some of these kids have been with me a year and have not learned the first form yet. Besides that they play around in class and seem to have no respect for what they are supposed to be learning. Yes I have tried almost every thing I could think of and even taken the thoughts of others and tried them but nothing seems to work more than half a class.
According to the parents they are on meds for ashd or some form of disorder. To me it looks like they should have had their backsides spanked and told to listen to adults and have some respect .
I have sat them down and refused to let them continue class before but that has no effect on them.
If I did not teach for free in exchange for a place to teach I would have told them not to come back long before this. However because of where I instruct I feel I have to take who comes through the door. The parents say "OH they are so much better disciplined in the mornings"
I was brought up so differently in the arts as where my kids and anyone I know that studied years ago it just irritates me to see the lack of wanting to do good. So I ask again is it wrong for me to hope they do not do good and hope that THEY LEARN FROM THAT?
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,301
Reaction score
3,606
Location
Northern VA
Nothing wrong with it all...

Some students need that lesson of failure, whether to make them take things seriously, or to offset an overinflated ego. There's a lesson in failure... sometimes more than success.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
If they care that little, they probably will do poorly. I think once they do, they'll either 1) work harder in order to do better next time, or 2) get frustrated and quit.

Do you call them out and have them do push-ups or other punishments when they goof off in class?
 

Gnarlie

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
445
Location
Germany
I am in a very similar position tshadowchaser. However, I don't view myself as being in a position to give advice on this. I'm intrigued to see what others have to say.

All I will say is this: I have no qualms about speaking directly with parents, and also about letting kids fail gradings / lose at tournaments if I think they need some motivation. It's finding a balance between this 'stick' approach and the more 'carroty' learning through play style that seems to work well but at the cost of a level of discipline.
 
OP
tshadowchaser

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
733
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
We have been getting a little more militant in our training methods with the kids of late but they just do not respond. To many of them it is a play time and if they want to participate they do and if not they sit on the floor or simply walk off. I have told them if they do not want to do something with the class to sit outside of the practice area and not come back on the floor till I say they can. That seems to only give them an excuse to do nothing. If so many did not come with another family member I would just n say go home and do not come back till your ready to practice.
I am hoping that seeing how others of their age preform will inspire them do want to do better.
 

qianfeng

Green Belt
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
134
Reaction score
14
They are not even teenagers so that's probably why they won't listen to much and you are teaching for free so parents won't enforce anything because it doesn't feel like they are losing anything. If they were paying the parents would think that they are wasting their money and make the kids work harder
 

donald1

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
3,530
Reaction score
807
though im not an instructor i have assisted the instructor. when he is busy teaching another group and there are other students(not in that group) sometimes i get to help them. i can somewhat relate to that. i have seen young students and i have had to deal with a few before though never a full year(in my class students pay) the students who goof off never stay more than 4 months. personally i can look over students making a few mistakes but goofing around or not trying is one ill tell them to do push ups. usually ten, more if it continues

a lot of parents are defendant of their children, they don't act serious in class if they cannot act serious for even one class than i assume they are not disciplined at all. both the kids and the parents should be ashamed of themselves

must be hard trying to teach them, best of luck!
 
OP
tshadowchaser

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
733
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
Can you not let them compete?
I could say they are not to compete but in truth I would rather see them lose and have their parents see how poorly they compare to students that actually try to learn.

Do you call them out and have them do push-ups or other punishments when they goof off in class?
LOL, tonight I was in a great mood and stopped my assistant instructor and took over the class completely. ANY goofing off caused the whole class to do push ups that included laughing, talking, turning around instead of looking to the front, etc. The class must have done a hundred twenty five push up by the time they where done. I also told them if they did not want to pay attention and do the push ups they could leaver the room but if they came back they where expected to do double the push ups that the class had done and that meant if they stayed out the rest of the night and came back on a different day they must do the push ups before joining any class. I also made sure the whole class knew who caused the push ups and why.

a lot of parents are defendant of their children

that is so true but I am fairly lucky in that the parents seem to acknowledge that I am trying to instill some discipline and promote responsibility
 

shesulsa

Columbia Martial Arts Academy
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
27,182
Reaction score
486
Location
Not BC, Not DC
Failure can be a great teacher. I try to not be very negative about the results but address their needs for improvement. If you can get footage and review it as a team that might be helpful. But I feel your pain.
 

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
Staff member
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
12,758
Reaction score
10,124
Location
Maui
A common thought would be "That would never happen in my class". But as anyone who teaches knows, this ain't your class we're talking about. All of us here have had great classes, great students, great eras, great whatever. And we've also had not so great of said same.

Sometimes, especially in smaller groups, the best way is to clean house and start over. Unfortunately, that's not as practical as we would like it to be. But sometimes the "not practicable" ends up being the best way in the long run.

The bottom line in martial arts schools/classes/groups/whatever is population numbers that might come and train or the existing population numbers that might come and train that suddenly know of an opportunity they didn't know about before.
 

mrjasperc

White Belt
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
@tshadowchaser I completely agree with you - I think it is important to lose at tournaments and learn from your mistakes (for your students). I always tell my guys that you can a big fish in a small pond - they may be the best in their club, but how do they fair in a inter-club tournament and then a national tournament and international tournament? I've also found the most effective way to learn (for me) is to spar with people who are better than me, so I can learn from them and hopefully best them, one day.
 

CB Jones

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
3,938
Reaction score
2,013
Location
Saline
Two thoughts.

1) Regardless of your location, it is disrespectful to you and your other students for them to be distractions and there is nothing wrong with advising their parents if they don't get with the program they will be asked to go elsewhere.

2). You need an enforcer. When you pair them up for sparring don't pair the ones that good off together. Pair them up with students you know will work them over. They will learn respect or give up.
 

Latest Discussions

Top