Christian Taekwondo

[Steven Craig]

TKD comes from one of the largest Christian countries in the world. The core aims of TKD (modesty, perserverance, self-control and indomitable spirit) do not conflict with Christian Values and could easily be soundly linked with Biblical teaching.

 

[granfire]

TKD comes from one of the largest Christian countries in the world.

what?

The core aims of TKD (modesty, perserverance, self-control and indomitable spirit) do not conflict with Christian Values and could easily be soundly linked with Biblical teaching.

indeed.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

what?

In other words, Christians make up a very high percentage of the population in Korea. I'm not sure if I would phrase it as one of the largest Christian countries in the world, however.

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Korea#Religion_in_South_Korea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Korea#Religion_in_South_Korea[/url]]Just more than 40 percent of South Koreans profess religious affiliation. That affiliation is spread among a great variety of traditions, including Buddhism (34 percent), Christianity (30 percent), Confucianism (0.2 percent), and shamanism. These numbers should be treated with some caution, however, as (with the exception of Christianity) there are few if any meaningful distinctions between believers and nonbelievers in Buddhism and Confucianism, which comprise more of a set of ethical values than a religion. The cultural impact of these movements is far more widespread than the number of formal adherents suggests. A variety of “new religions” have emerged since the mid-nineteenth century, including Cheondogyo. Very small Muslim and Bahá'í minorities also exist.

So, according to this, about 40% of Koreans in SK profess religious affiliation, and of that percentage, Christianity is one of two
majorities.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

The local TKD sixth dan in my town is also a Korean Methodist Church pastor. You might be surprised at how many Koreans in Korea are Methodists or Baptists due to the yeoman missionary work done by Christians there.

 

[granfire]

The local TKD sixth dan in my town is also a Korean Methodist Church pastor. You might be surprised at how many Koreans in Korea are Methodists or Baptists due to the yeoman missionary work done by Christians there.

I am surprised by a lot of things that are just beyond the edge of my horizon, but that's neither here nor there. ^_^

Just the 'one of the largest Christian countries' threw me for a loop...I would be guestimating thee are more Christians in Mexico City alone than people in Korea...(no need to comment, I am being a smart alec again)

 

[tellner]

Let's take a look at the ideal situation.

Think about a Tae Kwon Do school. The school doesn't require anyone to participate in prayers, but they are invited to, and students are encouraged to take part in worship services at the Church where the instructor preaches. The whole point of the school is to further the students' relationship with God. They don't hard-sell religion, but they're happy to share their Faith with students who are interested. The motto is something hokey like Prayer and Punching to Serve God. There are a few uplifting Scriptural quotes on the wall.

Maybe once in a while there's a special event for the kiddies - overnight pizza, prayer and martial arts practice with respected Church leaders. Sometimes the events are patriotic. Former students on active military duty come in and encourage the children to be patriotic, join the Army and be good soldiers for the Lord.

Sounds good to you? Sounds good to me.

 

[tellner]

Darn that short term memory. I forgot to mention the name of the Church.

The chief instructor preaches at the Bilal ibn Ribah Mosque.

Silly me.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Thank you, gentlemen. To be clear, I am very sure there will be some type of mixing of Christian concepts and values directly into the physical practice of TKD somehow. The person who wants to start this is a lecturer in philosophy and the classics at a local private university, so he has the background to integrate the two worlds quite readily.

Just because he is a lecturer in philosophy and the classics doesn't mean he has the background to integrate the two worlds, how solid is he on the bible that he is planing to integrate into a martial arts class?

Why would you change the names or add different symbolism? If you are going to go that far just scrap/change the whole form and create a new one.

I think alternating the forms to name them Christian is a bad thing, because it will lead to confusion in the long run. Say the program takes off, it becomes something like UPWARD Basketball or UPWARD Soccer (a Christian based sports ministry to young kids), and some students go to a local open tournament to compete and they announce "Judges my name is ...... my style is Christian TKD and the name of my form is JESUS SAVES." Then the student starts Chungi. As a judge not knowing what UPWARD TKD is then I would be totally confused, and others might be totally offended and the kid who is trying to do their best gets dinged on their score.

 

[dancingalone]

Just because he is a lecturer in philosophy and the classics doesn't mean he has the background to integrate the two worlds, how solid is he on the bible that he is planing to integrate into a martial arts class?

The Bible is one of the world's major books. I can't recall a single college course catalog I've perused that didn't at least offer a class with some discussion of the Bible and what it has meant throughout Western civilization. Christianity has shaped the thoughts of major philosophers like Kant, Descartes, etc. No offense, Boar Man, but I can't fathom a college lecturer in philosophy and the classics who wouldn't be very intimate with the ideas within the Bible and how they pertain to fields of thought like metaphysics or ethics.

Additionally, he's a Catholic deacon, which carries a considerable onus in doctrinal learning, since it is somewhat of a pastoral position.

Why would you change the names or add different symbolism? If you are going to go that far just scrap/change the whole form and create a new one.

They're just movements ultimately. Heck, the Chang Hon forms are an obvious reshuffle of the Pinan kata from karate. You might as well ask why did General Choi rely so much on older forms when creating his nationalistic Korean pattern set?

I think alternating the forms to name them Christian is a bad thing, because it will lead to confusion in the long run. Say the program takes off, it becomes something like UPWARD Basketball or UPWARD Soccer (a Christian based sports ministry to young kids), and some students go to a local open tournament to compete and they announce "Judges my name is ...... my style is Christian TKD and the name of my form is JESUS SAVES." Then the student starts Chungi. As a judge not knowing what UPWARD TKD is then I would be totally confused, and others might be totally offended and the kid who is trying to do their best gets dinged on their score.

Well, that's an odd concern in my opinion and probably unlikely to occur to begin with.

 

[Mark Lynn]

One of the other parishioners in my church is starting a physical fitness ministry using taekwondo as the main activity. He knows I am a MA instructor and has asked me for my help as he has no prior experience running a program.

Thoughts? I am generally opposed to mixing martial arts and religion, but I do believe the members of my church could benefit from another outlet to get physical exercise with perhaps some self-defense instruction. I would also be pained to decline to help a fellow church member in a sincere attempt to improve the lives of others.

dancingalone

First off I apologize with my previous post I hit send before I proofed it. I realize I come into this discussion late but for what it is worth. After reading the whole thread I have the following suggestions for you.

1) Get with the other instructor, work out some with him and get to know one another first, to see if your ideas about the ministry gel together. I mean work out philosophy, the mechanics behind techniques, self defense, importance of self improvement vs. what works in self defense etc. etc.

2) Both of you get on your knees and pray earnestly about the ministry and then get back together and discuss it more. Now is it about promoting a MA (whatever that MA might be) or is it about promoting God based on a Christian belief system through a particular MA? Which has priority?

3) Once you have established between the two of you what the goal is, then you can establish the mechanics behind achieving the goal.

4) Unless you really do care about the end result I wouldn't get to involved because that could be a disruptive force in the program. Which is why I believe that you really need to do 1-3 first. Then if you do want to get involved then throw yourself into it and take part ownership of what you can do to make it succeed.

5) Think about scrapping the whole MA thing as we currently know it and replace it with what is important to the people that you are trying to reach.
a) For instance if it is improving one's life style then you could teach fitness stuff like the areobic kickboxing program that one pastor mentioned (I think) along with the self improvement of the forms and basic training but stop there.

b) If it is to develop a martial artist then you can teach the forms, basics, bunkai, and lead into self defense etc.etc.

c) If it is to teach self defense then you can do away with the forms and train more of the applications of techniques found in them, but move away from the whole self improvement model of endless form and basic training.

d) If it is some sort of ministry, you could have the deacon develop a bible study that is reinforced with the martial training, but making the martial training of advancement by belts a thing of the past. Just have the people train for the sake of training and have the bible study coincide with why you train.
For instance you could have a bible study that is home based that takes a while to do say on The Basics of the Christian Faith. Then you can use the example of how important living out those basics are in life just like learning the basics of your MA are the base of which your art stands on. So the bible study acts as a way to help the student become more rooted in their faith, as well as drawing a visual connection to importance of proper technique in your art.
You could set up a small study on say different Basics of the Faith and take one subject, one point, and really get into that one point. At the same time you could concentrate on one technique and build on that as a central theme of the class(es). As an example of the depth of the certain point you might teach how say a motion called a block, could be a strike, could be a lock, or a throw. Again you are showing a physical truth to a biblical concept.

Now normally you might not show these things to someone who isn't a black belt because they have to learn all sorts of kicks they will never use in later life. They have to learn all sorts of stuff that drags the learning process out, when you could really cut it down and teach high quality martial arts and concepts to the students while at the same time and really (probably) more importantly strengthening their spiritual life in the process.

I'm also not suggesting that we bone breaking techniques to teach healing in the church either

This is a far more helpful and radical idea than say just changing names of techniques and staying with the current model of teaching MAs. You are putting the student's needs ahead of any system or hybrid MA. But this would take the most work and preparation by far.

I don't have a problem with teaching MAs from a Christian view point, I also don't have a problem with teaching or studying a MA that is steeped into religion as long as I know that is what I'm getting into up front.

Mark

 

[Haakon]

In other words, Christians make up a very high percentage of the population in Korea. I'm not sure if I would phrase it as one of the largest Christian countries in the world, however.

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Korea#Religion_in_South_Korea:Just more than 40 percent of South Koreans profess religious affiliation. That affiliation is spread among a great variety of traditions, including Buddhism (34 percent), Christianity (30 percent), Confucianism (0.2 percent), and shamanism.

So, according to this, about 40% of Koreans in SK profess religious affiliation, and of that percentage, Christianity is one of two
majorities.

Daniel

So that would make about 12% of the population Christian, 30% of the 40%, that doesn't seem like a very high percentage to me. In numbers that would be about 5.8 million Christian Koreans. That probably makes them one of the largest Christian countries in Asia, but I don't think the world.

This map was interesting, I'm actually surprised that Europe in general shows such a relatively low percentage. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Christianity_percentage_by_country.png

 

[dancingalone]

This map was interesting, I'm actually surprised that Europe in general shows such a relatively low percentage. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Christianity_percentage_by_country.png

Hmm, just as guess but I would think the primary classification in many European countries would be "atheist" or "agnostic".

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

So that would make about 12% of the population Christian, 30% of the 40%, that doesn't seem like a very high percentage to me. In numbers that would be about 5.8 million Christian Koreans. That probably makes them one of the largest Christian countries in Asia, but I don't think the world.

This map was interesting, I'm actually surprised that Europe in general shows such a relatively low percentage. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Christianity_percentage_by_country.png

I suppose that high is a relative term. I also suppose that it would depend upon the breakdown of the non-professing 60% and how they define 'non-professing.' I could say that I believe in God and perhaps even the Jesus of the Bible, divinity and all, but not attend church and not profess to be a part of any particular religion. One could also be a declared atheist and also be classified as 'non-professing.' Then there are deists, who believe in something but are again, not part of a specified religion.

Of course if the questionnaire is a multiple choice, you won't get those nuances.

So I will amend my post by saying that Christians comprise a very high percentage of the professing population.

Daniel

 

[Haakon]

I suppose that high is a relative term. I also suppose that it would depend upon the breakdown of the non-professing 60% and how they define 'non-professing.' I could say that I believe in God and perhaps even the Jesus of the Bible, divinity and all, but not attend church and not profess to be a part of any particular religion. One could also be a declared atheist and also be classified as 'non-professing.' Then there are deists, who believe in something but are again, not part of a specified religion.

Of course if the questionnaire is a multiple choice, you won't get those nuances.

So I will amend my post by saying that Christians comprise a very high percentage of the professing population.

Daniel

You know the old saying "lies, damn lies and statistics". That could surely be amended to include polls that skew results.