Suing for Kukkiwon Certificate

[Earl Weiss]

Earl, when your students test for 2nd dan, is the certificate with-held in the same manner as your 1st dans? If not, can you explain why not?

No, it is not withheld. The purpose of the probation is a way to force people to see beyond the goal of First Dan as opposed to setting this as a journeys end. If they have not learned that the success is in the journey and not the destination by 2nd Dan, there is no point in repeating the methodology.

 

[chrispillertkd]

And they get american itf(stop and go)point sparring? At least we go for the ko. Kyroogi means a contest of skill. It takes little skill to play "tag".
Judo gets prime time in other countries. You need to check your facts. The only sports that get prime time coverage in the us involve a ball or young girls tumbling.

Speaking of checking one's facts , ITF sparring isn't "stop and go." It's continuous sparring. There are a few differences between it and WTF sparring, such as the ITF using a wider range of techniques with which to score. You also tend to see less people falling down after trying to score with a kick in ITF sparring matches than you do in WTF matches (and the one's that do are penalized).

You forgot to mention the sports involving people running around an oval track get prime time coverage in the U.S. too, regardless of how boring I personally find them

Pax,

Chris

 

[puunui]

Not sure what "And they get american itf(stop and go)point sparring?" is but for the record, the fact is ITF sparring is continuous.

Do you think "they" get ITF continuous sparring? I watched a little of that when someone posted a video of it, and to me, it looked like competition under the WTF rules, with a couple few head punches thrown in. The competitors were even dangling their arms down by their sides as well, if I remember correctly.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

So 70 million Kukki Taekwondo practitioners in almost 200 countries "get it" then. I can live with that.

Thats the problem. Only those that do it "get it". With successful sports even those that dont do it, or have never done it , still "get it". I must say I dont do either wtf or itf tkd, but purely from a spectator perspective, I would rather watch itf sparring any day. No disrespect to wtf sparring, it takes a lot of skill, speed, fitness, timing etc etc, but as a spectator sport it really doesnt have a lot going for it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Do you think "they" get ITF continuous sparring? I watched a little of that when someone posted a video of it, and to me, it looked like competition under the WTF rules, with a couple few head punches thrown in. The competitors were even dangling their arms down by their sides as well, if I remember correctly.

Can't speak for them, but when I see ITF sparring like this I don't get it. Had some talented eastern European guys train with me. Kept telling them to get their hands up. Unfortuneately they were taller than my guys and able to get away with it until....... another Eastern european guy with good hands came in. The result was that they ended up blocking with their face --- a lot!.

All I could say was "see, this is what I have been trying to tell you. I asked one why the heck they didn't get their hands up? One of their sisters annswered "Becuase they are stupid."

 

[miguksaram]

Perhaps it was in reference to ATA sparring or open karate sparring?

Even open karate tournaments get some air time at least once a year. ESPN2 hosts the ISKA/NASKA US Open that is held annually in Florida.

 

[puunui]

All I could say was "see, this is what I have been trying to tell you. I asked one why the heck they didn't get their hands up? One of their sisters annswered "Becuase they are stupid."

Either that or they subconsciously mirror WTF competitors, because perhaps they want to be one. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[Radar]

Since this has come up several times let me give you some input from experience. We have several instructors in my area/state who "withhold" certificates from students who have passed their tests and have paid for their tests. We also have those who have not applied for certificates for those who have paid for them. When those people come to me I have helped them get their certificates. If their certificate has been applied for and the instructor has been "holding" it that makes it easy. I can apply for a duplicate certificate through the Kukkiwon for a very cheap fee. I think the last time it was $35.
Several times the people have chosen to take the instructors in question to small claims court. It is inexpensive to do this. In ALL cases they have come out the winner. Its very simple. The judge asks the instructor if the student paid for the test. The instructor says yes (hard to say no when you have a canceled check and they know it), the judge asks if they are Kukkiwon certified (again hard to say no when its all over their website that they are), the judge asks them were their certificate is? They come up with all kinds of stupid things here but in the end the judge gives them two choices... give them the certificate or give them their money back. In the one case that I was a "witness" in the instructor refused to give them the certificate so he chose to give them their test fee back ($550 he charged them) He then tore up the certificate in front of the student and walked out. I patted her on the back and laughed, and got her a duplicate within two weeks for $35. Now this was the same guy who stood up in front of the judge with what looked to be about 50 certificates and was rather proud of the fact that he was "holding" all of them until the students "proved" their loyalty to him.
Bottom line: If you were promised it, you paid for it, you earned it then you deserve it. Dont settle for anything else and dont let them get by with cheating you out of it.

I am located in Ontario, Canada and experiecing the same thing. I am no longer a student with the school and it has be approx. 9 months since i had tested. Would you have any advice or guidance you can offer me?

 

[troubleenuf]

Canada has allot of politics just like the US does. I have allot of friends up there as we are close to the boarder. Are you still training? Tell you what.... PM me and I will get you the name of someone to contact that I know that has a stellar reputation and is not in it for the money.

I am located in Ontario, Canada and experiecing the same thing. I am no longer a student with the school and it has be approx. 9 months since i had tested. Would you have any advice or guidance you can offer me?

 

[Radar]

I have PM you with my email address as well..hopefully you have received?