carry your gun off duty

[KenpoTex]

(emphasis added)

29 Oct 09

Three off-duty, OIS (Officer-Involved Shootings), fatal and near-fatal, in NY, from a friend in the area:

"Three off-duty police officers, wearing plain clothes, fatally gunned-down knife, and bat-wielding attackers in three, separate cases last Tuesday.

Two officers fired their pistols at close range during separate car-jacking attempts. "... car-jackers selected their victims most unwisely," wryly
commented a police spokesman. Suspects in both cases were DRT.

Later the same day, two suspects, armed with baseball bats, assaulted a detective as he was vacuuming his personal vehicle at a local car wash. In the ensuing gunfire, one suspect, struck multiple times, was DRT. The other fled, but was apprehended by responding officers a short time later."

Comment: In all three cases, "victims" emerged victorious and unharmed, not because they happen to be LEOs, but because they were armed, trained, and eminently willing to defend their own lives with precision gunfire.

Result: Three officers, none-the-worse for wear, three VCAs who will never commit another violent crime (nor any kind of crime for that matter), and one VCA under arrest.

What's not to like?

The only ones "disturbed" by this kind of happy outcome are liberal politicians, who live for the creation of victims who will "need' them!

The lesson here for the rest of us is: Always be armed, because you can't know when the Test will come. The chronically unprepared have no right to complain about perpetual "victim" status.

Once more: When it's least expected, you're elected!

/John Farnam

Farnam's Quips are a great source for anecdotes, tactical considerations, and mindset lessons. The entire index can be found here:
http://www.defense-training.com/quips/quips.html

 

[Xue Sheng]

In NYS you are a Police office 24/7 which generally translated to you carry all the time. Also they, like may LEOs, are trained to fire and the central mass of the body which generally translated into if you shoot you are going to kill the other guy not wound him.

Not saying good, bad, yea or niegh just stating facts

 

[KenpoTex]

In NYS you are a Police office 24/7 which generally translated to you carry all the time. Also they, like may LEOs, are trained to fire and the central mass of the body which generally translated into if you shoot you are going to kill the other guy not wound him.

Not saying good, bad, yea or niegh just stating facts

well, that's not really a given considering that something like 85% of people shot with a handgun survive. That said, multiple rounds to vital areas (high center chest, or head) is the best way to stop someone with a handgun.

 

[Xue Sheng]

well, that's not really a given considering that something like 85% of people shot with a handgun survive. That said, multiple rounds to vital areas (high center chest, or head) is the best way to stop someone with a handgun.

Are you talking all people shot by handguns or just those shot by LEOs, basically who is firing the gun? I am talking specifically LEOs, and I am assuming the majority of LEOs are trained similar to those in NYS.

So allow me to say this differently and more to the point based on what I know without assumption as to how other LEOs are trained; an LEO in NYS is not trained to shoot to wound. And considering the nature of the job I really don't have a problem with that.

 

[KenpoTex]

All I'm saying is that just hitting "center of mass" is no guarantee that the bad guy is going to be stopped.

As far as training is concerned, I don't know of any department or school that teaches their officers or students to shoot to wound. That would just be stupid.

And, not that it's really relevant to this thread, the police generally don't really enjoy that great of a "hit rate." I believe NYPD's is only like 30% (if that). Just because someone wears a badge doesn't automatically make them a gunslinger.

The officers mentioned in the first post did a great job. They were carrying their guns and they had the skill and the will to use them effectively. That was the point of the thread as it is a lesson that we should all take to heart.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I apologize for my irrelevant posts

 

[Hudson69]

If you are an LEO then I think you would be foolish not to carry off-duty (within department policy of course). Not only can something like that happen, as mentioned in the post, but any number of other things might as well.

Besides; most departments probably tell their officers, like mine does here in Colorado, that to take action is a personal decision but to "Have it and not need it is better than needing it and not having it." You can still be a really good witness to a crime and not take any action unless there is threat to life. The incidents mentioned above are good examples of having a gun when you need one.

I carry off-duty almost always (rare exceptions do exist) but most of my fellow officers are more "hit & miss."

 

[Drac]

As soon as I get my retirement badge and ID you can bet your *** I will be strapped all the time..

 

[FierySquidFace]

yeah, 'cuz that's just what we need: more guns on the streets! shoot to kill! why waste the taxpayers hard earned $ arresting and jailing the criminals? just take 'em out!

verkill:

 

[KenpoTex]

 

[Archangel M]

yeah, 'cuz that's just what we need: more guns on the streets! shoot to kill! why waste the taxpayers hard earned $ arresting and jailing the criminals? just take 'em out!

Uhhh. When a group of guys are attacking you with bats, shooting them IS arresting them. If they survive then they can have their day in court.

 

[FierySquidFace]

Uhhh. When a group of guys are attacking you with bats, shooting them IS arresting them. If they survive then they can have their day in court.

Wow. I should be a cop...

 

[Archangel M]

What..do you think Cops should whip out their awesome "tactical ninja" skills and disarm bat and knife wielding attackers? If you don't want to get shot, don't attack me with a deadly weapon.

 

[FierySquidFace]

What..do you think Cops should whip out their awesome "tactical ninja" skills and disarm bat and knife wielding attackers? If you don't want to get shot, don't attack me with a deadly weapon.

Now you're mocking my art.

Just relax "officer". Personaly, I wouldn't mind being able to shoot people for a living. You guys seem to get alot of enjoyment out it.

 

[Archangel M]

Where do you come to that conclusion from what has been posted in THIS THREAD?

And what are you suggesting? Disarms? Shooting to wound? What?

Or is this just a convenient excuse to do a little cop bashing?

 

[MBuzzy]

[playnice]Craig Mills[/playnice]

 

[FierySquidFace]

The people mentioned in this thread who attacked the LEOs got what they had coming to them IMO. However, there have been countless cases of people getting killed unnecisarily(sp) by LEOs, and you guys know that better than most people.

I grew up in a small town. 2 of the 4 years that I was in highschool there, a student was shot and killed by a policeman. Neither of these students were attacking anyone. Is underage drinking and driving really a good reason to get shot in the head? (tangent- sorry)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that people who are in that position of authority (LEOs) have an obligation to protect themselves, and us, and sometimes deadly force is required. It just seems to me that all too often, that authority is abused, and people get killed when it wasn't neccesary.


I sincerely appologize to everyone here for being negative and disrespectful.:asian:

 

[Ceicei]

(Edit: anecdote removed as it is not directly related to the topic)

However, this experience is not the point of the original thread anyway. The point mentioned in the OP was those officers, who were off duty, had their guns with them. Even though they were off duty, they were able to stop a crime in action.

This concept is not too difficult to extrapolate to regular (non-LEO) citizens. Each day somewhere, in America, armed citizens are also able to defend themselves as well.

- Ceicei

 

[KenpoTex]

(Edit: anecdote removed as it is not directly related to the topic)

However, this experience is not the point of the original thread anyway. The point mentioned in the OP was those officers, who were off duty, had their guns with them. Even though they were off duty, they were able to stop a crime in action.

This concept is not too difficult to extrapolate to regular (non-LEO) citizens. Each day somewhere, in America, armed citizens are also able to defend themselves as well.

- Ceicei

Yep.
They didn't just stop a crime...they stopped crimes in which they were the intended victims. This extrapolates perfectly to situations other citizens might face.


Fierysquidface...Just a piece of advice, consider thinking a little before you post.

 

[FierySquidFace]

as long as you guys promise to think before you shoot :wink2: