Capoeira works

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Daniel Sullivan

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I know there's a lot of different kinds of sparring, and without getting into an argument over definitions and whatnot, I'll ask a question: in the general sense, what do people think about sparring? Useful? Not useful? Waste of time? Important training exercise?
In order to learn techniques in such a way as to be useful in a practical setting, be it a violent encounter or a tournament, the student's proficiency in said techniques must be pressure tested in some way that approximates the practical setting that the student is preparing for.

Whatever you choose to call that mechanism, it must be present. A resisting opponent who is using techniques that an opponent would realistically use in the setting for which you are preparing (be it a violent encounter or a tournament) is a necesary ingredient in such a mechanism.

Daniel
 
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ATACX GYM

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Zumbi dos Palmares pulled off capoeira against slavers.He did so successfully that THE PORTUGUESE SLAVERS RECORDED THAT THEY WERE AFRAID OF HIM.The quilombos as a whole threw defiance for 100 years at the Portuguese,despite their guns,dogs,whips,knives and the fact that they (the capoeiristas) were outnumbered by the Portuguese colony prettty consistently at a 35 to 1 ratio.And they used capoeira to do it.There is no doubt whatsoever that capoeira is a highly potent,very dangerous martial art.The problem lies in the fact that you have zero idea what TRUE capoeira is,apparently no desire whatsoever to find out...yet you make sweeping pronouncements that attempt to clothe your ignorance(literally; as in the text book definition of the term) as fact.Your opinion is your opinion and I'm cool with that; you can even elect to maintain your opinion in the face of ironclad data to the contrary; that's cool too.Your right and choice.However,CAPOEIRA WORKS.No doubt or question about it.There are literally thousands of documents which have been passed on by slavers and Brazilian racist gentry who (if anything) would waste no time with the most scathing possible verbal denigrations to complement their most horrific treatment of other humans (slavery) if there was any actual validity in your words.Instead? The documents of the time are filled with accounts of the power and ability of capoeiristas; even when spiked by and slanted with the special irrational venom of the racist slaver and unapologetic racial supremacist? Capoeira is clearly a feared and respected art,and the capoeiristas were so feared and respected that oftentimes the slavers and persecutors of capoeira learned capoeira in order to defend themselves from these magnificent warriors.These selfsame persecutors also HIRED capoeiristas as bodyguards and sometimes assassins to do away wit their political rivals or some unwanted element in the city.

I too have trained for MORE than 3 decades.I feel confident in my ability to pull off a cartwheel kick vs you and anyone else...exactly as you feel comfy in your ability to defend and punish me for such a move.The key here is that you're dead set in thinking that "fancy" stuff don't work.Your excoriation of TKD head kicks as being fancy **** that doesn't work is manifestly false and disproven literally by millenia of head kicks.The ENTIRE HISTORY of martial arts DISPROVES your contention.I would defend your right to have your opinion about whatever matter; that's cool.The moment you sally into the realm of objective relaity though...your opinons on this matter have no scintilla atom or quark of fact to ennoble them; even via the wildest imaginings.Now,you may have a PREFERENCE for lower,less aerial kicks.You may even believe that these techs are higher percentage.(I agree with you there).But you're manifestly and provably wrong regarding the combat feasibility of tkd kicks and jump kicks,head kicks,and capoeira itself.



None of this is either a diatribe or in any way racist or injecting race into this discussion.JOSH was the one who mentioned race first.I mentioned nationality and mindset.I'm not at all surprised to discover that you could read an objective commentary and NOT see that it lacks wholesale the things that you claim is within it.My post is on the effectiveness of capoeira along with the long documented effectiveness of what Twin Fist called the "twirly" stuff.The fact that I mentioned Portuguese slavers and racist Brazilian gentry is NOT an indication of me injecting RACE into the matter...it's proof that the mindset of the groups I specified are massively disinclined to write ANYTHING positive about capoeira and/or capoeiristas.The fact that the most extremely disapproving of those people opposed to the success and spread of capoeira and capoeristas left hundreds if not thousands of documents detailing its deadly effectiveness should be the final word on this matter.And it IS from a factual perspective.However,you...yorkshirelad...and Twin Fist are free to indulge your opinions however you like.As you should know,I have no probs with that.

The athletes of the roda are NOT indicative of actual combat capoeira.People like Anderson THE SPIDER Silva is and so am I.And we're not alone.
 
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ATACX GYM

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In order to learn techniques in such a way as to be useful in a practical setting, be it a violent encounter or a tournament, the student's proficiency in said techniques must be pressure tested in some way that approximates the practical setting that the student is preparing for.

Whatever you choose to call that mechanism, it must be present. A resisting opponent who is using techniques that an opponent would realistically use in the setting for which you are preparing (be it a violent encounter or a tournament) is a necesary ingredient in such a mechanism.

Daniel


I completely and totally agree with you.
 

searcher

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I know there's a lot of different kinds of sparring, and without getting into an argument over definitions and whatnot, I'll ask a question: in the general sense, what do people think about sparring? Useful? Not useful? Waste of time? Important training exercise?


Sparring is highly important to myself, My Wife, and all of my students. We are a knockdown school and we find sparring to be as essential as any other part of our training. Kata, kihon, kumite/randori/rolling are our essentials. We have been called barbaric by some and we love it. It has to be said, that in my school, we don't try to kill each other, but we push each other to reach our limits. If we don't push each other, we do a dis-service to one another.
 
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ATACX GYM

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Sparring is highly important to myself, My Wife, and all of my students. We are a knockdown school and we find sparring to be as essential as any other part of our training. Kata, kihon, kumite/randori/rolling are our essentials. We have been called barbaric by some and we love it. It has to be said, that in my school, we don't try to kill each other, but we push each other to reach our limits. If we don't push each other, we do a dis-service to one another.


I LIKE THIS GUY! AND YOUR WIFE IS FIYA TOO!! It's supr dupr raaaaarrre to find a woman,a martial artist who'll go to the throwdown with you AND marry you!
 

bushidomartialarts

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My wife's tough, and a martial artist before we met. We met in a capoeira class, and she knocked out a guy who kept gouging my eye in a sparring class (kenpo, not capoeira).

But if we spar, it makes her cry. Purely psychological -- her hubby shouldn't hit her, under any circs.
 

searcher

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My wife's tough, and a martial artist before we met. We met in a capoeira class, and she knocked out a guy who kept gouging my eye in a sparring class (kenpo, not capoeira).

But if we spar, it makes her cry. Purely psychological -- her hubby shouldn't hit her, under any circs.


I push My Wife just as hard as I push any of my fighters. The results are, that in a hairy situation, that I am not constantly worrying about her getting hurt. She will be right there pounding on someone and IF she gets hit, she will shrug it off and keep going. When My Wife received her Sho-dan, she worked very hard and had to deal with some serious beatings from someof the guys in class who were considerably heavier than she was(we were on dating at that time). She fought through it and knocked some of them out during the course of her testing period and the months preceding.

As far as hitting My Wife, it happens everytime we spar. She pounds on me and I pound on her. It keeps her on top of her game and me as well. She gets asked at her work all of the time about bruises and such. She just tells them what they are from and that ends the conversation. People think we are nuts and maybe we are, but it the stuff hits the fan, we know what we each can do and it is a huge relief.
 
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ATACX GYM

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I push My Wife just as hard as I push any of my fighters. The results are, that in a hairy situation, that I am not constantly worrying about her getting hurt. She will be right there pounding on someone and IF she gets hit, she will shrug it off and keep going. When My Wife received her Sho-dan, she worked very hard and had to deal with some serious beatings from someof the guys in class who were considerably heavier than she was(we were on dating at that time). She fought through it and knocked some of them out during the course of her testing period and the months preceding.

As far as hitting My Wife, it happens everytime we spar. She pounds on me and I pound on her. It keeps her on top of her game and me as well. She gets asked at her work all of the time about bruises and such. She just tells them what they are from and that ends the conversation. People think we are nuts and maybe we are, but it the stuff hits the fan, we know what we each can do and it is a huge relief.


I think I'm jealous of you and bushidomartialarts man...and I'm sooo very glad and happy for you! I completely agree that our significant ladies should be able to handle themselves with confidence and competence,although I've never met a woman who's scored as many KO's over male martial artists as YOUR wife,searcher,seems to have done.That is THE GREATEST,man.Lololol.Please pass on my props and respect to mrs.searcher!
 
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ATACX GYM

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My wife's tough, and a martial artist before we met. We met in a capoeira class, and she knocked out a guy who kept gouging my eye in a sparring class (kenpo, not capoeira).

But if we spar, it makes her cry. Purely psychological -- her hubby shouldn't hit her, under any circs.


Man,that's FANTASTIC that you met your wife in capoeira class! How did she KO that rat Mr. Eye Gouger? What technique did she use in your kenpo class to finish him?
 

bushidomartialarts

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Man,that's FANTASTIC that you met your wife in capoeira class! How did she KO that rat Mr. Eye Gouger? What technique did she use in your kenpo class to finish him?

It's even better than that. We grew up about 80 miles from each other and met in a capoeira class in Nagisaki, Japan.

The KO was just a brutal uppercut after a feinting jab that got the guy to snap his head back. Dude never fully lost consciousness, but he sat down and had to spend a few minutes before he knew where he was.

Sniff...sniff...that's my gal.
 
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ATACX GYM

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It's even better than that. We grew up about 80 miles from each other and met in a capoeira class in Nagisaki, Japan.

The KO was just a brutal uppercut after a feinting jab that got the guy to snap his head back. Dude never fully lost consciousness, but he sat down and had to spend a few minutes before he knew where he was.

Sniff...sniff...that's my gal.


OMFG! A Nagasaki Japan capoeirista with a sicc feint and a cold TKO uppercut?...

...Does she have a sister? Sisters? Girl friends?

Are you two military personnel?
 

bushidomartialarts

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OMFG! A Nagasaki Japan capoeirista with a sicc feint and a cold TKO uppercut?...

...Does she have a sister? Sisters? Girl friends?

Are you two military personnel?

No sisters, and all our female friends have been married off.

Not military. I was over there coaching a karate team. She was teaching English with the JET program.
 

yorkshirelad

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None of this is either a diatribe or in any way racist or injecting race into this discussion.JOSH was the one who mentioned race first.I mentioned nationality and mindset.I'm not at all surprised to discover that you could read an objective commentary and NOT see that it lacks wholesale the things that you claim is within it.My post is on the effectiveness of capoeira along with the long documented effectiveness of what Twin Fist called the "twirly" stuff.The fact that I mentioned Portuguese slavers and racist Brazilian gentry is NOT an indication of me injecting RACE into the matter...it's proof that the mindset of the groups I specified are massively disinclined to write ANYTHING positive about capoeira and/or capoeiristas.The fact that the most extremely disapproving of those people opposed to the success and spread of capoeira and capoeristas left hundreds if not thousands of documents detailing its deadly effectiveness should be the final word on this matter.And it IS from a factual perspective.However,you...yorkshirelad...and Twin Fist are free to indulge your opinions however you like.As you should know,I have no probs with that.

The athletes of the roda are NOT indicative of actual combat capoeira.People like Anderson THE SPIDER Silva is and so am I.And we're not alone.

Anderson is an effective fighter, period! He could be training in tap dancing alone and he would be able to kick the crap out of an average guy. Mentioning the exception to the rule does not make your rather weak argument any more feasible!
You are a race baiter pure and simple. Anyone into pure history would've presented just the facts, but your commentary included some rather telling adjectives. But then again, you come from Amen's lineage so nuff sed! If i was to mention the black racists in Zimbabwe, who butchered white land owners a few years ago, and how well they fought off their racist attackers before being overwhelmed like injured lions fighting off a pack of hyenas, you would probably accuse me of being a race baiter. Get the message matey!
 

Josh Oakley

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Just a shame they didn't have youtube in Brazil 100 years ago. I can't be the only one to recognize that the "vids or it didn't happen" mentality is a fallacy. You guys who want proof that capoeira is effective? Go train with a capoeirista. THEN decide. Discussion won't show anything.
 

Flying Crane

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Just a shame they didn't have youtube in Brazil 100 years ago. I can't be the only one to recognize that the "vids or it didn't happen" mentality is a fallacy. You guys who want proof that capoeira is effective? Go train with a capoeirista. THEN decide. Discussion won't show anything.


nah, all Youtube shows is how truly awful most people really are, regardless of what they are doing.

There is little, if anything, on Youtube that shows anything to establish any system's dominance or superiority or effectiveness. All it shows is training sessions, drills, sparring, competition. None of that caught on video really establishes anything at all. It only shows what people WANT to show, which is surprisingly poor and in most cases ought to be hidden away and never spoken of again.

I am of the firm belief that most of the people are not even half as good as they believe they are, and that those who talk the loudest about it are in most cases probably among the worst.
 

yorkshirelad

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Just a shame they didn't have youtube in Brazil 100 years ago. I can't be the only one to recognize that the "vids or it didn't happen" mentality is a fallacy. You guys who want proof that capoeira is effective? Go train with a capoeirista. THEN decide. Discussion won't show anything.
I already did, on the beach in HB. I had a nice time, friendly people. It's a beautiful DANCE!!
 
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