Capoeira works

[ATACX GYM]

I think it's under development as a subprogram of Adobe Acrobat....

Hahahahahaha!!! +2!

 

[ATACX GYM]

ayup, and to add: for those who understand it properly and who train it properly, it is still a deadly effective method of fighting. But for those who train only for the roda, and a friendly roda at that, it may not be. But either way, it is still capoeira. These are simply two different aspects of the art.

Real talk that is what I've been saying.And Nestor Capoeira's books are also excellent scholarly works.Especially his 2nd and 3rd books.I bought Taylor's works exactly once...then my cousins happened by and the books just ooopsy daisy vanished.We're talking Capoeira Angola books right? 1 and 2? Something like Angola to Cyberspace? I didn't get a chance to read PAGE ONE of that book.Cousins JACKED me,man.Now they SWEAR the books are theirs cuz they've had them for so long.You know what I mean.

But Nestor's books are true treasures not only because of the time span that they cover,but because Nestor is that rarest of the rare blend of genuine master level capoeirista--one of the first 5 cordo vermelho (red cords) in capoeira,back when it was SUUUPER HARD to get the cordo vermelho AND the old skool training was still MANDATORY--who met both Mestre Bimba AND Mestre Pastinha during their lifetimes in the 60's,he was part of the crucial and seminal building of capoeira into what it became in the late 70's and 80's up til right now.His works fuse the irreplaceable insight of one of the greatest modern players of the game with the rigorous objectivity and penetrating vision and training of the classically trained historian and academic.He has the wonderful gift of being a world class capoerista around the greatest masters,their greatest students,forming the greatest organizations,during the time of capoeira's world resurgence in the 60's and 70's...which cannot be replaced or replicated.And he's an academic beyond reproach.These two absolutely vital,completely indispensable perspectives are RARELY combined within one person and that's why I prefer his works better than anything I've read so far.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Real talk that is what I've been saying.And Nestor Capoeira's books are also excellent scholarly works.Especially his 2nd and 3rd books.I bought Taylor's works exactly once...then my cousins happened by and the books just ooopsy daisy vanished.We're talking Capoeira Angola books right? 1 and 2? Something like Angola to Cyberspace? I didn't get a chance to read PAGE ONE of that book.Cousins JACKED me,man.Now they SWEAR the books are theirs cuz they've had them for so long.You know what I mean.

That's them..."From Luanda to Cyberspace." Fantastic books.

 

[Twin Fist]

TKD has all those stupid jumping, spinning and jump spinning kicks

kenpo has a bunch of finger strikes i think are silly as hell

this has the roda

lots of arts have silly, useless crap in them.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

lots of arts have silly, useless crap in them.

I'd go with all martial arts have silly, useless crap in them...but less than you seem to think.

As soon as you start training to imitate, rather than to intelligently apply concepts, stuff becomes silly and useless.

For example, if you train a 540 degree jump kick in the dojo -- and you understand it's purpose isn't street use, but rather to make a kick to the knee devastating -- then you're not being silly or useless. But if you're simply imitating what you've seen without truly understanding, then the next thing you know some kid who's never been in a fight is arguing that a jump kick is perfectly applicable and appropriate for the street.

On the other hand, "seen without truly understanding" is also a fair description of many peoples' complaints about an art they haven't studied.....

 

[Twin Fist]

i would have thought it went without saying that "stupid, silly, or useless" means "not for self defense but it teaches you good balance, power, focus etc" since i have been talking about self defense the whole time..........

i will be more clear in the future.......

 

[yorkshirelad]

Zumbi dos Palmares pulled off capoeira against slavers.He did so successfully that THE PORTUGUESE SLAVERS RECORDED THAT THEY WERE AFRAID OF HIM.The quilombos as a whole threw defiance for 100 years at the Portuguese,despite their guns,dogs,whips,knives and the fact that they (the capoeiristas) were outnumbered by the Portuguese colony prettty consistently at a 35 to 1 ratio.And they used capoeira to do it.There is no doubt whatsoever that capoeira is a highly potent,very dangerous martial art.The problem lies in the fact that you have zero idea what TRUE capoeira is,apparently no desire whatsoever to find out...yet you make sweeping pronouncements that attempt to clothe your ignorance(literally; as in the text book definition of the term) as fact.Your opinion is your opinion and I'm cool with that; you can even elect to maintain your opinion in the face of ironclad data to the contrary; that's cool too.Your right and choice.However,CAPOEIRA WORKS.No doubt or question about it.There are literally thousands of documents which have been passed on by slavers and Brazilian racist gentry who (if anything) would waste no time with the most scathing possible verbal denigrations to complement their most horrific treatment of other humans (slavery) if there was any actual validity in your words.Instead? The documents of the time are filled with accounts of the power and ability of capoeiristas; even when spiked by and slanted with the special irrational venom of the racist slaver and unapologetic racial supremacist? Capoeira is clearly a feared and respected art,and the capoeiristas were so feared and respected that oftentimes the slavers and persecutors of capoeira learned capoeira in order to defend themselves from these magnificent warriors.These selfsame persecutors also HIRED capoeiristas as bodyguards and sometimes assassins to do away wit their political rivals or some unwanted element in the city.

I too have trained for MORE than 3 decades.I feel confident in my ability to pull off a cartwheel kick vs you and anyone else...exactly as you feel comfy in your ability to defend and punish me for such a move.The key here is that you're dead set in thinking that "fancy" stuff don't work.Your excoriation of TKD head kicks as being fancy **** that doesn't work is manifestly false and disproven literally by millenia of head kicks.The ENTIRE HISTORY of martial arts DISPROVES your contention.I would defend your right to have your opinion about whatever matter; that's cool.The moment you sally into the realm of objective relaity though...your opinons on this matter have no scintilla atom or quark of fact to ennoble them; even via the wildest imaginings.Now,you may have a PREFERENCE for lower,less aerial kicks.You may even believe that these techs are higher percentage.(I agree with you there).But you're manifestly and provably wrong regarding the combat feasibility of tkd kicks and jump kicks,head kicks,and capoeira itself.

This is the race bating quote that I was refering to. Instead of just telling us that that art was practised effectively by slaves, you went on a diatribe. When you refer to " Brazillian racist gentry" and unapologetic racial supremacists", it become less of a history lesson and more of a diatribe. The potato sized chip is still there mate.When it comes to not reading your later posts, there's nothing ignorant about it, you just become boring. You've already told us that you believe Capoeira to be superior. You've already told us about racism. You've already told us that you are a superior martial artists, who's been in numerous street fights, yawn yawn. I've always said, you can punch me, kick me shoot or stab me to death, but please don't bore me to death.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

So you define building physical or mental attributes as "silly and useless"?

This must be an innovative use of the terms "silly" and "useless" of which I was previously unaware.

OTOH: I totally agree that trying to apply training methods to street defense is silly and useless. You don't use pushups in a street fight....

 

[Twin Fist]

So you define building physical or mental attributes as "silly and useless"?

no, skills, and balance and mental toughness is important

jump spinning kicks are silly and useless


but cool as hell

 

[bushidomartialarts]

but cool as hell

Meaning they can get you laid, among other things.

I wouldn't say "silly and useless," "silly and useless in combat" absolutely

 

[Flying Crane]

I know there's a lot of different kinds of sparring, and without getting into an argument over definitions and whatnot, I'll ask a question: in the general sense, what do people think about sparring? Useful? Not useful? Waste of time? Important training exercise?

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I've always felt that it was a lot like MMA training. Builds some very important skills and attributes: speed, timing, calmness in confrontation, target acquisition, the value of avoiding strikes.

But it has the disadvantage of training people with reflexes that will hurt them in the street. Worse, many people who are very good at sparring appear to have forgotten this fact.

An important drill, if kept in perspective.

 

[Twin Fist]

I wouldn't say "silly and useless," "silly and useless in combat" absolutely

agreed

 

[Twin Fist]

sparring is the single most important part of martial art's training

if you aint sparring, you are not learning how to fight, Sometimes, like fighting, the only way to learn how is to do it

Look at it this way, it doesnt matter how much porn you watch, you are a virgin till you are not.

I know there's a lot of different kinds of sparring, and without getting into an argument over definitions and whatnot, I'll ask a question: in the general sense, what do people think about sparring? Useful? Not useful? Waste of time? Important training exercise?

 

[Flying Crane]

I've always felt that it was a lot like MMA training. Builds some very important skills and attributes: speed, timing, calmness in confrontation, target acquisition, the value of avoiding strikes.

But it has the disadvantage of training people with reflexes that will hurt them in the street. Worse, many people who are very good at sparring appear to have forgotten this fact.

An important drill, if kept in perspective.

a fair assessment.

What people seem to not understand is, the Roda is capoeira's version of sparring. And within the Roda, it can be very relaxed and playful, or harsh and nasty and anywhere in between. But it's just sparring. It ain't the end-all be-all, it's just one aspect of the system, tho I'll acknowledge that it's an aspect that is often heavily emphasized.

If anyone objects to the Roda, then they must also object to sparring in the general sense.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Nail on the head, Crane...

We even saw the same dividing line earlier in the thread. One side had an inflated idea of the combat application of what happens in the roda, and the other side saw no value.

Well done.

 

[Twin Fist]

when i spar, i hit people, i dont dance with them and stand on my head

thats not sparring, thats gymnastics done to bad music

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Hey now! You can dis the moves all you want, but don't come down on the music unless you want a berimbau enema.....

 

[Twin Fist]

not even if you bought me dinner first buddy.....

 

[bushidomartialarts]

C'mon. I know how far you Nacodoches boys are willing to go for hot chili and cold beer....