Can Karate Stand a Chance Against Aikido?

Buka

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To me....an aggressor comes in. Probably not the first time he has done so. He's usually greeted with whatever the appropriate response he has learned to look out for, learned through first hand experience as a predator on the street.

F' him and the experience he rode in on. Seriously. Full speed ahead. Let him deal with you, not you deal with him.
 

gpseymour

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Kata tends to be the source of the technique.

A drill tends to be a reflection of a technique.
I'm not sure that's a universally accurate description - at least in part because there's no clear universal definition of "technique".

I don't use kata as the source of a technique. The source, in my mind, is the most effective actual uses. The form is just a training method. So, I can have someone practice the Classical form of a Mugger's Throw (vaguely similar to drop seoi nage) in order to develop the mechanics for that technique. I can have someone practice a short combination repeatedly on a heavy bag to develop the mechanics for that combination. I can have someone practice solo shrimping to develop the mechanics (and core) for that movement. If I call the shrimping drill "the shrimping form", it doesn't change the nature of the practice. If I have someone practice the Mugger's Throw Classical form without a partner (it is normally only practiced with a partner), I'd refer to that as a "drill", but it's really just the form.
 

drop bear

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I'm not sure that's a universally accurate description - at least in part because there's no clear universal definition of "technique".

I don't use kata as the source of a technique. The source, in my mind, is the most effective actual uses. The form is just a training method. So, I can have someone practice the Classical form of a Mugger's Throw (vaguely similar to drop seoi nage) in order to develop the mechanics for that technique. I can have someone practice a short combination repeatedly on a heavy bag to develop the mechanics for that combination. I can have someone practice solo shrimping to develop the mechanics (and core) for that movement. If I call the shrimping drill "the shrimping form", it doesn't change the nature of the practice. If I have someone practice the Mugger's Throw Classical form without a partner (it is normally only practiced with a partner), I'd refer to that as a "drill", but it's really just the form.

Why I said tends.

Your aplication of kata is the better version.
 

gpseymour

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Why I said tends.

Your aplication of kata is the better version.
Thanks. I thought so - that's why I use it that way. IMO (and it's just my opinion), starting from kata and trying to make application fit that is like starting from a shrimping drill and trying to make the escapes work that way. It should always be the other way around, and forms should evolve as understanding and application evolve. I've actually heard people say that application should be as close to form as possible, and I can agree with that only if the form is adjusted to be as close as possible to useful and effective application.
 

JP3

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Kata tends to be the source of the technique.

A drill tends to be a reflection of a technique.
Nah... a technique is just a movement, you have to have the movement before you put it, perhaps string it together is the right verb form, into a kata.

And a drill is a repetition of a movement, which could be a technique, designed to put it into muscle memory for coordinative purposes.
 

JP3

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To me....an aggressor comes in. Probably not the first time he has done so. He's usually greeted with whatever the appropriate response he has learned to look out for, learned through first hand experience as a predator on the street.

F' him and the experience he rode in on. Seriously. Full speed ahead. Let him deal with you, not you deal with him.
Precisely.

As the sig says, paraphrased, don't estimate people. You'll probably be wrong.
 

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