Another wake up for Chinese Martial Arts

JowGaWolf

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Here we go again. Good thing is that it won't be a big news item.

 

Martial D

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It's the man, not the style. Here's a Kung Fu guy beating *** in the ring.

Can I go back to sleep now?

 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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It's the man, not the style. Here's a Kung Fu guy beating *** in the ring.

Can I go back to sleep now?

He always represents well. That's the difference between someone who trains to fight and someone who doesn't. He doesn't let people hit him solid in the face like that anymore. He had to learn that lesson the hard way. lol.
 

JR 137

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For the most part, I don't think it's the art itself. I think it's the training methods and implementation of the techniques of the art. Look at a knockdown fighter from Kyokushin vs a point fighter. Both are training karate. Both are using more or less the same punches and kicks. Put one of each with similar length of time/hours of training and skill in their respective style of fighting in the ring like above, and which one will prevail? The start/stop game of tag guy, or the guy who's trained to take a shot or two and counter it with hard strikes?

Take a Wing Chun guy who spars hard and accepts and is willing to take a hit or three to execute his counter and put him against a Wing Chun guy who does nothing but forms, push hands and sticky hands (sorry if I'm butchering the terms) without ever actually forcefully hitting anything nor getting hit forcefully. Who'll typically be the last man standing?

The ones who accept they'll get hit and train to get hit and keep going will usually prevail. The ones who actually hit something like a punching bag and don't stop and get a point once contact is made will typically win. It's not rocket science, nor is it the art itself; it's how the person trains.

Thinking you'll never get hit and training like every hit you give is a killing blow is delusional. Training without someone ever throwing anything with any realistic intent at you is absurd. This is true of any art.
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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For the most part, I don't think it's the art itself. I think it's the training methods and implementation of the techniques of the art.
Totally agree.

Thinking you'll never get hit and training like every hit you give is a killing blow is delusional. Training without someone ever throwing anything with any realistic intent at you is absurd. This is true of any art.
Totally agree. This is something that I'm really big on. Just recently a student told another student that felt like she could defend herself if someone broke into her house. I cringed because this lady doesn't train in the sparring class and nothing about her training should give her this assumption. Now that she has it, I'll need to bring her down a little with a self-defense class and then maybe have her train on sparring days.

Kung fu has a lot of dangerous techniques, but the problem is being able to successfully land the technique and that's not easy at all.
 

Martial D

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Kung fu has a lot of dangerous techniques, but the problem is being able to successfully land the technique and that's not easy at all.

I find the opposite is true of a lot of Wing Chun(sorry, it's my only frame of reference vis a vis cma). Lots seem to train for contact but use only arm power. The way I was trained is all explosive hip power .
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I find the opposite is true of a lot of Wing Chun(sorry, it's my only frame of reference vis a vis cma). Lots seem to train for contact but use only arm power. The way I was trained is all explosive hip power .
If you

- don't fight full contact, you may never be able to find out that "only arm power" is not enough to knock your opponent down.
- do fight full contact, you will never train "only arm power".

So the issue is "full contact" training vs. "light contact" training.
 

JR 137

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If you

- don't fight full contact, you may never be able to find out that "only arm power" is not enough to knock your opponent down.
- do fight full contact, you will never train "only arm power".

So the issue is "full contact" training vs. "light contact" training.

I'm not thoroughly convinced you have to fight full contact to recognize the difference. Pro fighters don't typically fight full contact (the ones who have a career beyond one or two fights anyway) in training and they have no problem delivering full power strikes when needed. Don't get me wrong, comparing pro fighters to everyday people training in a local school is a bit of a stretch.

I think it's more of punching the air and focus mitts instead of hitting a heavy bag for power. People who've hit something full power routinely feel the difference and adjust their technique. People who don't have no true frame of reference. The only way to be able to hit hard is to actually hit things hard, be it a person (which doesn't last very long), a bag, or like Rocky hitting the hanging cow carcasses in the butcher shop.
 

Martial D

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I'm not thoroughly convinced you have to fight full contact to recognize the difference. Pro fighters don't typically fight full contact (the ones who have a career beyond one or two fights anyway) in training and they have no problem delivering full power strikes when needed. Don't get me wrong, comparing pro fighters to everyday people training in a local school is a bit of a stretch.

I think it's more of punching the air and focus mitts instead of hitting a heavy bag for power. People who've hit something full power routinely feel the difference and adjust their technique. People who don't have no true frame of reference. The only way to be able to hit hard is to actually hit things hard, be it a person (which doesn't last very long), a bag, or like Rocky hitting the hanging cow carcasses in the butcher shop.
Did you mean to say pro fighters don't train full contact? Because they certainly fight full contact :)

You're right though. Powerful striking comes from lots of repetition and practice you just can't get without...powerful contact.
 

JR 137

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Did you mean to say pro fighters don't train full contact? Because they certainly fight full contact :)

You're right though. Powerful striking comes from lots of repetition and practice you just can't get without...powerful contact.
Yes, I meant TRAIN/SPAR full contact. "I'm pretty sure pros don't fight full contact during TRAINING..." Some of that was separated by parentheses. If a fighter is going all out in training, their career isn't going to last very long IMO. I'm quite sure they get very technical in sparring rather than all out fighting during training camp.
 

Martial D

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Yes, I meant TRAIN/SPAR full contact. "I'm pretty sure pros don't fight full contact during TRAINING..." Some of that was separated by parentheses. If a fighter is going all out in training, their career isn't going to last very long IMO. I'm quite sure they get very technical in sparring rather than all out fighting during training camp.
Indeed. AKA is known for sparring too hard, and for frequent injuries and missed fights. No coincidence.
 

JP3

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Thinking you'll never get hit and training like every hit you give is a killing blow is delusional. Training without someone ever throwing anything with any realistic intent at you is absurd. This is true of any art.

Man, I love this. In my opinion, if you think you're going to ever really "need" your art to defend yourself in any way... dead on target.
 

hoshin1600

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indeed

its not a lack in the art usually. its heart, intent, intensity, attitude and the correct mind set. you need to foster these things in your training. if not then you will crumble when it matters.
 

Midnight-shadow

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If you are so obsessed with being the best warrior, then go be a Spartan, who were arguably the best warriors in the world. How did they do it? On the back of slavery and extreme child abuse, and that's if you even survived being born since newly born Spartans were closely inspected and if they had any defects at all, they were discarded and left to die in the wilderness.

My point is, there is a hell of a lot more to life than being the best fighter, and quite frankly there is no need in this day and age to be the best fighter.
 

DanT

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This isn't a wake up for Chinese Martial Arts.

This is a wake up for Crappy Chinese Martial Artists.

If you listen to me playing the piano, you'd say the piano is a terrible instrument.

If you listen to Mozart playing the piano, you'd say it's a beautiful instrument.

If you watch someone who's terrible at Gong Fu fight, you'd say Gong Fu is terrible for fighting.

If you watch someone who is amazing at Gong Fu fight, you'd say Gong Fu is amazing for fighting.
 

DanT

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Here we go again. Good thing is that it won't be a big news item.

Jow, I've seen thousands of Gong Fu people, and I truly believe, based on your videos, that you are one of the remaining few who can actually use Gong Fu in a fight. It's sad, but it's true. Traditional Gong Fu is dying. It's up to the few of us who stay true to our techniques to keep it alive.
 
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JowGaWolf

JowGaWolf

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Jow, I've seen thousands of Gong Fu people, and I truly believe, based on your videos, that you are one of the remaining few who can actually use Gong Fu in a fight. It's sad, but it's true. Traditional Gong Fu is dying. It's up to the few of us who stay true to our techniques to keep it alive.
I agree it's dying even within the lineage that I'm in. There are very few people who actually want to be able to use Kung Fu as a fighting skill and that's where the problem begins. A person can't have a good understanding of their martial art if they don't actually use it. I can lecture and drill a person on how to use a computer, but that person won't have a good understanding of the computer until they actually spend time using the computer. Kung Fu is like that.

We can't understand what we don't use. It's just a shame that other people don't understand that and as a result a lot of traditional martial arts are going to die. But there is an upside to this. People like us can charge a premium for knowing how to actually use the techniques.

I like the Miyamoto Musashi quotes below because those 2 quotes cover exactly what you are talking about.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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There are very few people who actually want to be able to use Kung Fu as a fighting skill and that's where the problem begins.
Many people want to talk about fighting but they don't want to get into fighting themselves.

You love women but you don't want to touch women. It makes no sense to me.
 

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