But you're not a black belt.

[rickster]

I wonder if anyone ever gave him a black eye to match his black belt?

 

[Steve]

In all fairness, I have to ask: was this TKD black belt allowed to use full contact strikes during this match?

It's TKD. Would the TKD black belt even know how to use full contact strikes? ( )

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's TKD. Would the TKD black belt even know how to use full contact strikes? ( )

I'd like to think so...

Was he allowed to?

 

[ETinCYQX]

I agree. I was referring more to the combat logic and playfulness. Most BJJ white belts don't have egos and will go hard with anyone to try out their new arsenal. I would dare say that "some" white belts in Judo and BJJ could take (submit/defeat) a TKD black belt who has no grappling game since they would be a fish out of water once they were grabbed and taken to the ground. I saw it first hand a few weeks ago at our club when a cocky 2nd Dan in TKD went with one of our 7 month white belts and got smoked several times... Granted it was his first night (and maybe last) in Judo but he left the dojo with a new demeanor.

My first night in Judo i got taken down by a guy who started the exact same time, as a 1st Kyu in taekwondo. I'd like to think he wouldn't have been able to take me down if i was allowed to kick him, but who knows ().

I have to admit when I started grappling I was a little cocky. By the time I got my taekwondo 1st dan, that had been worked out of me.

 

[ETinCYQX]

It's TKD. Would the TKD black belt even know how to use full contact strikes? ( )

WTF sparring is always full contact. ITF is "officially" semi contact, but ITF guys don't appear to know what that means because they hit just as hard as we do...

 

[Gentle Fist]

In all fairness, I have to ask: was this TKD black belt allowed to use full contact strikes during this match?

No strikes or kicks, which is good since the white belt had done Muay Thai for a few years prior to joining Judo

 

[Dirty Dog]

No strikes or kicks, which is good since the white belt had done Muay Thai for a few years prior to joining Judo

So in other words, it wasn't a "back belt vs white belt" match. It was "zero experience white belt vs some experience white belt" match.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So in other words, it wasn't a "back belt vs white belt" match. It was "zero experience white belt vs some experience white belt" match.

And even if gentlefist could somehow include striking arts in the equation, its 2nd dan taekwondo vs. muay thai fighter

 

[arnisador]

WTF sparring is always full contact.

Define "full".

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Define "full".

as far as Im aware wtf tkd is "full conact" to the legal target areas. You can literally kick someone in the head as hard as you want, or anywhere on the hogu. Those guys kick like mules, they will easily break your rib even through the hogu if you are not careful.

 

[lklawson]

So in other words, it wasn't a "back belt vs white belt" match. It was "zero experience white belt vs some experience white belt" match.

No. Both had striking experience. One had no Judo/Grappling experience and the other had very little Judo/Grappling experience and was able to do a takedown on the former.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Dirty Dog]

No. Both had striking experience. One had no Judo/Grappling experience and the other had very little Judo/Grappling experience and was able to do a takedown on the former.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

So as I said, under the ruleset they were required to follow

it wasn't a "back belt vs white belt" match. It was "zero experience white belt vs some experience white belt" match.

 

[mcmoon]

As a whitebelt in bjj I have taken down many blackbelts in TKD with full contact rules. Unless you train to not get taken down it then it really isn't all that hard to put somebody on their back but even then I could pull guard and be perfectly fine in that situation.

I'm a bluebelt now but I have taught instructors things even though I am not a blackbelt. Usually I just make an observation which they may have not noticed and goes from there.

Also there is a difference between lets say a boxer with his hands down who is used to dealing with punches than a taekwondist with his hands down who isnt used to dealing with punchs.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

As a whitebelt in bjj I have taken down many blackbelts in TKD with full contact rules. Unless you train to not get taken down it then it really isn't all that hard to put somebody on their back but even then I could pull guard and be perfectly fine in that situation.

I'm a bluebelt now but I have taught instructors things even though I am not a blackbelt. Usually I just make an observation which they may have not noticed and goes from there.

Also there is a difference between lets say a boxer with his hands down who is used to dealing with punches than a taekwondist with his hands down who isnt used to dealing with punchs.

It depends largely on the tkd black belt. If you are talking about the guy who got his black belt in 18 months at the local mcdojo then my 8 year old son could probably take them down. If, however, you are talking about a "real" tkd black belt who trained at a "real" tkd dojang and took 5 years to get a black belt training 3 or 4 times a week (not training olympic style), then I would just about bet my house that a bjj white belt would not even get close to them. "Good" tkd black belts have amazing reflexes and very fast footwork and will kick you three times before you even realise they are in range. Ive sparred these sorts of guys many times, and its not much fun. If you are talking about mcdojo black belts then I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[mcmoon]

It depends largely on the tkd black belt. If you are talking about the guy who got his black belt in 18 months at the local mcdojo then my 8 year old son could probably take them down. If, however, you are talking about a "real" tkd black belt who trained at a "real" tkd dojang and took 5 years to get a black belt training 3 or 4 times a week (not training olympic style), then I would just about bet my house that a bjj white belt would not even get close to them. "Good" tkd black belts have amazing reflexes and very fast footwork and will kick you three times before you even realise they are in range. Ive sparred these sorts of guys many times, and its not much fun. If you are talking about mcdojo black belts then I agree wholeheartedly.

I can not say how good many of them were so you could totally be right but one of my mma instructors was a legit tkd black belt and a blue belt in bjj with heavy tkd influenced standup and have managed to take him down. It was however much harder and a little more rarer but not impossible.

Also as long as you are not an idiot, keep your guard up, and not rush in like a hobo then I'll take a kick to put you on your *** if that is where I will have the advantage.

This is also from my experience and while I am not a black belt I am no slouch in the stand up so the fact that I knew how to setup my strikes, defend and counter could have been the reason so a person that did not have that experience could have a very different outcome. Also it really needs to be clarified what people mean by bjj white belt. I have seen white belts that have a wrestling background take more experienced people down at will all the time. There is also a huge difference between white belt that's been training for a few months and one that's been training 2 years. As I believe I stated earlier when your not trained to defend takedowns it really is not all that difficult. It's the same as some one throwing a kick, they may know more less what to do but because they haven't ever actually trained it then it is probably god awful and not very effective.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Also as long as you are not an idiot, keep your guard up, and not rush in like a hobo then I'll take a kick to put you on your *** if that is where I will have the advantage.

That explains a lot. if you can just rush in and take a kick, either they weren't using full power because it was practice, or their not one of the 'good' TKD black belts. I would never risk taking a kick from a TKD black belt whose trying to hurt me, and certainly wouldnt be able to tackle them after..my head would be spinning if im not knocked out.

This is also from my experience and while I am not a black belt I am no slouch in the stand up so the fact that I knew how to setup my strikes, defend and counter could have been the reason so a person that did not have that experience could have a very different outcome.

This also explains it..you're original post was a bit misleading. You may have been a white belt in BJJ, but you had other martial experience to help you combat the TKD..pretty sure they meant someone who is pure BJJ white belt, with no experience outside of BJJ, because then they become a "A BJJ white belt, and "insert other experience/rank here"

 

[arnisador]

My money's on the guy with a little BJJ. They've shown it often enough--the strategy works.

 

[mcmoon]

That explains a lot. if you can just rush in and take a kick, either they weren't using full power because it was practice, or their not one of the 'good' TKD black belts. I would never risk taking a kick from a TKD black belt whose trying to hurt me, and certainly wouldnt be able to tackle them after..my head would be spinning if im not knocked out.

This also explains it..you're original post was a bit misleading. You may have been a white belt in BJJ, but you had other martial experience to help you combat the TKD..pretty sure they meant someone who is pure BJJ white belt, with no experience outside of BJJ, because then they become a "A BJJ white belt, and "insert other experience/rank here"

Again I'm not saying just rush in and take a kick and I'm defiantly not taking one to the head for a take down but if you know you are going to get hit there are tactics such as rolling with the strike to lessen the damage done and get in clinch range. This may also be having to do with my experience and knowing this beforehand, it's hard to speak from a pure inexperienced point view but I understand exactly what you mean and didn't mean to try and be misleading.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Again I'm not saying just rush in and take a kick and I'm defiantly not taking one to the head for a take down but if you know you are going to get hit there are tactics such as rolling with the strike to lessen the damage done and get in clinch range. This may also be having to do with my experience and knowing this beforehand, it's hard to speak from a pure inexperienced point view but I understand exactly what you mean and didn't mean to try and be misleading.

Yeah, i get what you did, just saying what an inexperienced person would probably do, with just bjj, probably wouldn't know to well at white to avoid the kick to the head when trying for the takedown.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

My money's on the guy with a little BJJ. They've shown it often enough--the strategy works.

Id love to see some footage of a bjj white belt defeating a "good" tkd black belt, Ive searched but cant find any. Plenty of vids (with an agenda) showing very ordinary tkd black belts against reasonable bjj guys.Saying you could just take a kick in order to get in on them is like saying "I'll just let this tiger shark get a good bite on me so I can get close enough to poke it in the eye". Kicks are much stronger than punches and coming from someone who has trained them extensively they are devastating. You dont simply "take a kick" from a good tkd black belt.