BJJ vs Wing Chun (joke joke!)

KamonGuy2

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Just wanted to say thankyou to Bob ubbard for shutting the BJJ wing chun thread

I hope no-one was offended by anything that was posted within that thread. It was all done in humour and I am sure I speak for everyone when we say that we are all brotehrs and sisters of the martial arts world

Ultimately there will be many posts on related subjects (wing chun and Muay Thai, wing chun and karate etc)

It is really down to the individual and their character as to whether they cross train or not

My only (and last) bit of advice on the subject is get out there and have a look for yourselves. I was a die hard wing chun purist for a long time, until I went to a wrestling gym and was thrown on my butt

It is essential for any martial rtist not to get too bogged down in one martial art. I love wing chun and believe that out of all the martial arts out there, it offers the most to an enthusiastic practitioner

But it is like when you eat food. If you stick to just the one dish that you like, you might never know other delicious flavours
 

seasoned

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Just wanted to say thankyou to Bob ubbard for shutting the BJJ wing chun thread

I hope no-one was offended by anything that was posted within that thread. It was all done in humour and I am sure I speak for everyone when we say that we are all brotehrs and sisters of the martial arts world

Ultimately there will be many posts on related subjects (wing chun and Muay Thai, wing chun and karate etc)

It is really down to the individual and their character as to whether they cross train or not

My only (and last) bit of advice on the subject is get out there and have a look for yourselves. I was a die hard wing chun purist for a long time, until I went to a wrestling gym and was thrown on my butt

It is essential for any martial rtist not to get too bogged down in one martial art. I love wing chun and believe that out of all the martial arts out there, it offers the most to an enthusiastic practitioner

But it is like when you eat food. If you stick to just the one dish that you like, you might never know other delicious flavours
Just as a side note, then I will rest. I study and teach GoJu, and have for many years. If I was to cross train, say in boxing, or any other MA, I would expect to take some lumps. The same holds true within my own dojo. I would expect to get hit or taken down, its what happens after that, that counts. Case closed.
 

Steve

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The original intent of the thread was interesting to me. The idea of identifying those areas where seemingly very different styles actually overlap, like on a venn diagram.

For my part, I apologize for losing my temper. If anyone ever wants to spar with a mediocre jiu-jitiero who has no stand up game at all, I'd love to goof around, and maybe have a beer or two after. :)
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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That thread was a train wreck 30 pages pileup.

There was some good discussion from both sides but some of the ugliest comments were on that thread.

I am glad Bob closed the thread it was just becoming a mud slinging mess.

Thanks Bob for restoring order.
 

Seeker

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Thanks Kamon,

That thread was a train wreck and an eye-opener as well.

We have those that praise WC unrealistically as the ultimate and then we have those who debase the art and cast it aside as junk. It's rare to find the middle ground on any MA forum where people are being pragmatic about the art... until now, and thanks to guys like you and many others who offer sound advice and a realistic view of what WC is and is not.

Thank you all who keep things real and rooted in reality.
 

profesormental

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Greetings.

I still think it is important to note the overlaps in principles and concepts, as well as in training methods and execution of martial skills.

This last week, in memory of Gran Maestre Helio Gracie, all we trained was Gracie Jiu jitsu, and at the end of every class, we did not time limit bouts where the objective was to get to the mount or back and finish with strikes (low contact... but if the guy was controlled and pinned and just ate strikes, he lost) or with submission, prefferably a choke.

We train San Da here also, so we fought, took it to the gound as we normally do, controlled the action and hada lot of fun, with people puking from 7 to 10 minute fights, beautiful takedowns, controlled contact and artful escapes that ended up in rear naked chokes that had me scrceaming as if watching MMA fights on TV.

Everyone had fun and learned a lot.

So in the end, what matters is the instructors and training partners that you have. So that you learn a lot and have lots of fun.

I've trained great Wing Chun, and trained Wing Chun with people that I learned not much from. Same with Kenpo, BJJ and MMA.

The idea of Continuing Education in our Area of Study (Physical Education of Martial Arts, Sciences and Sports) should include exposition to different methods of training, so that we can learn to better ourselves faster and more efficiently.

In my case, Wing Chun train me in HOW to do movements and timing for Destructive Sequences,

American Kenpo trains me in Practice Combat Scenarios for Self Defense and Destructive Sequences (the WHAT),

Sl-4 Kenpo gives me the WHY and HOW for Self Defense and Martial Application of Movement in general,

San Da and Jiu Jitsu give me a rule structure to train sports and at higher levels, self defense in a high intensity, yet safe way.

So I guess I'm kind of a Martial Mutt. Which can be seen as a good thing by some, or a bad thing by others. It has worked out beautifully form me and me and my students get what they want from the training.

What more do I need or should strive for?

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado
 

geezer

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So I guess I'm kind of a Martial Mutt. Which can be seen as a good thing by some, or a bad thing by others. It has worked out beautifully for me, and me and my students get what they want from the training.

What more do I need or should strive for?

Sincerely,
Juan M. Mercado

What more? Nothing. I'd say you've found what we are all looking for... a balance that suits our needs!
 

profesormental

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Thanks!

Actually, I'm striving for Optimization of Movement for Martial Applications... yet in the training methods department, I think I got it covered! :)

Interestingly enough, I'm really into going to as many seminars as possible, and get a taste for what is out there. Continuing Education, baby!!
 

Yoshiyahu

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So what are some good Striking techniques that work well against the BJJ Artist?


Thanks!

Actually, I'm striving for Optimization of Movement for Martial Applications... yet in the training methods department, I think I got it covered! :)

Interestingly enough, I'm really into going to as many seminars as possible, and get a taste for what is out there. Continuing Education, baby!!
 

jarrod

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RARARARARAR bjj RARARARARARARAR wing chun RARARARARARARARARA between their legs RARARARARA chi balls.

please copy & paste the above over the next 30 pages, thank you.

jf
 

MJS

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I said it before, and I'll say it again. If you want to cross train, fine, do it. If you don't, fine, then don't do it. IMO, we can learn something from every art, and no, you're not tainting yourself, you're improving your skills. I find it interesting how one of my posts in that locked thread went unanswered. It was the one about doctors, teachers, etc. Is a doctor bad if he goes on to specialize in something? What about a teacher? You have various teachers for each subject. What about a chef?

My point....those are people who specialize in something. Nothing wrong with that.

Whats really sad, is how people can run around, so blind to what else is on the table. To each their own I guess.
 

skinters

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i wonder who it was that said style seperates us ? personaly i have got better things to do than protect my style like a crazy religion.

lock this thread before it creates more bad blood with children who cant control themselves.
 
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KamonGuy2

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Exactly. It's funny how you don't see other arts moaning about cross training. Indeed my karate instructor is very positive about it, (although most don't bother).

At the end of the day, a good chef will try every cuisine and understand different recipes and types of food. He will not make one dish that he thinks is perfect and stay with that

Expand, look around, get out there. Probe. Make sure your martial art is good - whatever style you do

Faith alone is nonsense. My best friend trained 5 years in an art (not going to mention which) and when he asked to spar with me, I tied him up, trapped him, took away his feet and sat on him. That was after two years in wing chun. He promptly realised that his teacher was full of cr*p and that because the teacher had forbidden him to visit other schools, he had never been able to judge his art or learn different ways of doing things

Let's not argue the same arguments. I would hope that people do enjoy and love wing chun, but also have a hunger to look at things 'outside the box'

We have many extremely talented martial artists on here, as well as those guys/gals who have just started but who have an excellent attitude towards training

Let's debate together using this wonderful resource and share the vast wealth of knowledge that it provides. Peace out
 

skinters

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Exactly. It's funny how you don't see other arts moaning about cross training. Indeed my karate instructor is very positive about it, (although most don't bother).

At the end of the day, a good chef will try every cuisine and understand different recipes and types of food. He will not make one dish that he thinks is perfect and stay with that

Expand, look around, get out there. Probe. Make sure your martial art is good - whatever style you do

Faith alone is nonsense. My best friend trained 5 years in an art (not going to mention which) and when he asked to spar with me, I tied him up, trapped him, took away his feet and sat on him. That was after two years in wing chun. He promptly realised that his teacher was full of cr*p and that because the teacher had forbidden him to visit other schools, he had never been able to judge his art or learn different ways of doing things

Let's not argue the same arguments. I would hope that people do enjoy and love wing chun, but also have a hunger to look at things 'outside the box'

We have many extremely talented martial artists on here, as well as those guys/gals who have just started but who have an excellent attitude towards training

Let's debate together using this wonderful resource and share the vast wealth of knowledge that it provides. Peace out

what is it that brings the worse out of people when the my style against your style question comes up ?some can talk about the differences and similarities without reaching for the throat,and to some they style is like a religion.to be honest i think we all been there,where something is said about the thing you love and do and all hell breaks lose.

i think only when you address WHY things get heated when the style v style question comes up,can most people go past 2 minutes before throthing at the mouth.

kamon,lets all be brothers sounds great, people will argue the same arguments,and for years decades to come .

you have to realise,and please dont take this as being patronising,that people just wont accept other ways of doing things,not just in martial art.i think bjj is great and can be incorperated in to a wide range of styles.

people get angry when they cannot reply to a post where their style or technique is questioned,its a shock to the system to some to realise all you cherish and love maybe be wrong, and there is indeed a better way of doing something.

people defend they style like a religion,and we all know what the various religions think of each other,some can tolerate,others wont move an inch.

start a thread that states i hearby declare i will participate in this style v style thread,and talk about the similarites and differences with an open mind,and will at no time throw my toys out my pram.
 

jarrod

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what is it that brings the worse out of people when the my style against your style question comes up ?some can talk about the differences and similarities without reaching for the throat,and to some they style is like a religion.to be honest i think we all been there,where something is said about the thing you love and do and all hell breaks lose.

i think only when you address WHY things get heated when the style v style question comes up,can most people go past 2 minutes before throthing at the mouth.

kamon,lets all be brothers sounds great, people will argue the same arguments,and for years decades to come .

you have to realise,and please dont take this as being patronising,that people just wont accept other ways of doing things,not just in martial art.i think bjj is great and can be incorperated in to a wide range of styles.

people get angry when they cannot reply to a post where their style or technique is questioned,its a shock to the system to some to realise all you cherish and love maybe be wrong, and there is indeed a better way of doing something.

people defend they style like a religion,and we all know what the various religions think of each other,some can tolerate,others wont move an inch.

start a thread that states i hearby declare i will participate in this style v style thread,and talk about the similarites and differences with an open mind,and will at no time throw my toys out my pram.

YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T UNDERSTAND JUJITSU & MY SENSEI CAN KICK YOUR SIFU'S...oh, wait, sorry i don't know what happend there. please forgive me.

i have no problem objectively comparing & contrasting styles. in fact there is something in almost every style of MA that appeals to me. i wish i could learn them all, or at least survey each for a couple months. this is probably because i tend to look for the similarities between styles rather than the differences. it is sad that it's so difficult to share knowledge without feathers getting ruffled.

the fact is, with the proper understanding of universal martial principles, you can acheive what you desire with most any style. fighting is fighting, the externals of technique just reflect the varieties of tactics. all MA that i'm familiar with support making your opponent's weakness your strength, using energy/angles/momentum to over come a larger opponent, ending conflict as soon as possible, & so on. how someone prefers to accomplish those things is really nothing more than a matter of taste. grappling feels natural to me so i do it. i have strong legs & i'm flexible so i like kicking. other ranges seem awkward to me no matter how much i train them, so i know where my weaknesses lie. it's all good, everyone's different.

jf
 

MJS

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what is it that brings the worse out of people when the my style against your style question comes up ?some can talk about the differences and similarities without reaching for the throat,and to some they style is like a religion.to be honest i think we all been there,where something is said about the thing you love and do and all hell breaks lose.

i think only when you address WHY things get heated when the style v style question comes up,can most people go past 2 minutes before throthing at the mouth.

kamon,lets all be brothers sounds great, people will argue the same arguments,and for years decades to come .

you have to realise,and please dont take this as being patronising,that people just wont accept other ways of doing things,not just in martial art.i think bjj is great and can be incorperated in to a wide range of styles.

people get angry when they cannot reply to a post where their style or technique is questioned,its a shock to the system to some to realise all you cherish and love maybe be wrong, and there is indeed a better way of doing something.

people defend they style like a religion,and we all know what the various religions think of each other,some can tolerate,others wont move an inch.

start a thread that states i hearby declare i will participate in this style v style thread,and talk about the similarites and differences with an open mind,and will at no time throw my toys out my pram.

For the most part, I agree with what you're saying. Believe me when I say, I have dealt with the same type of people in the Kenpo world, as I'm dealing with here in the WC section. I've trained in Kenpo for a long time and yes, there're some that think its the ultimate, just like there're people who think WC is the ultimate. As I've said, there is no ultimate art.

I've never tried to convert someone, to try to steer them away from their base art, and join something else. I hold no grudge against WC. I've pointed to many examples to backup my posts, yet people still refuse to take those rose colored glasses and blinders off, and they will still argue with you.

People hear 'grappling' and assume that it means A and only A. If you've read thru any past posts/threads, you would see many examples.

Hey, if someone doesn't want to do it, don't, but just because someone does, does not mean that they're 'tainting' their base art.
 
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KamonGuy2

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I know black belts in BJJ who mention the need for striking

Even though in a real fight they would probably decimate their opponent, they are stilll very open minded and honest about how BJJ has limited striking. Some train in boxing, some go straight to MMA, some do muay thai, but more often than not, people have come from those arts into BJJ. There is no ego, so why is it different with wing chun?

It just gets frustrating that arts are so defensive about the reputation of the style. If a system works, whats the problem?
 
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