Wing Chun in decline: My quest for the historical model of Wing Chun

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geezer

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I'm glad that you agree it's fear; especially if didn't even spar hard when you were young. And by sparring hard, I mean full power to the head & body.
Yeah. Different people fear different things. I was more afraid of getting hit before I got hit some .... one time I remember seeing a flash and then trying to get up off the floor and thinking "that wasn't so bad".

On the other hand, I really would not want to be in that position today. From what we know about the long term effects of brain injury, it's a risk I shouldn't take.

Now you want to talk FEAR ...irrational, mind-numbing fear? Think about this:

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jayoliver00

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Yeah. Different people fear different things. I was more afraid of getting hit before I got hit some .... one time I remember seeing a flash and then trying to get up off the floor and thinking "that wasn't so bad".

On the other hand, I really would not want to be in that position today. From what we know about the long term effects of brain injury, it's a risk I shouldn't take.

Which is what I said, you fear being hit in the head. Whether you fear getting hit and/or fear the long term effects of brain injury, they're both types of fear. And only you know which one is more prevalent.

And again, there are levels to this. Training w/o hard hits to the head, once in a while, is still at the lower levels.
 

jayoliver00

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I'll just say that part of the reason I stuck with BJJ and never returned to striking arts is because I'm getting older and old sports injuries are constantly flaring up (especially one of my knees).

I had a good buddy of mine in his 50s who wanted to relive his glory days and took up muay thai kickboxing. He was doing fine until he got the bright idea to do an amateur fight. He ended up shattering one of his shins, and severely hurting his ribs. He was on crutches for weeks. After he recovered, he never went back to the MT gym.

I'm not quite as old as that guy, but the idea of getting socked in the face isn't appealing to me. I can understand why some people avoid it, and I can understand why some people prefer martial arts where hard sparring and competition simply isn't present.

Obviously you have to train hard, but you have to train smart too, or you won't be training very long. I think I'm at the stage now where I just do the Jitz to stay in shape and maintain flexibility. I'm not trying to be the king of the mat, or tap out those young punks who come in off the street. These days, I let the kids take out the trash.

I've been at the same MMA gym for over 15 consec. years, not missing a week (unless vacation)..... and have seen the most serious injuries come from BJJ. I mean the worse KO I've seen was my friend who's a Fed, ex-mil, purple belt, etc. trying out MMA for his 1st fight...got KO'ed w/i 20 seconds of the 1st round....and couldn't remember if he was in a fight that we were training his *** for, for months, LOL.

Seen plenty of KD's and some KO's on the Muay Thai/Boxing side of the gym during training...lots of sprained ankles, black eyes, deep bruises, etc. Only twice for broken ribs, and once for a broken arm b/c the guy posted with his arm when he got swept; but that's it. Nothing as bad in comparison to the BJJ side....with multiple knee surgeries, back surgeries, elbow surgeries, etc. Had 2 serious BJJ competitors in their prime at the purple level being told by their MD's that they may risk never walking again if they F with this thing called BJJ some more; so these guys are probably doing Tai Chi somewhere with old folks while in their 30's. They wouldn't even risk playing soccer. Then there are multiple purples to BB's with back problems in their 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's.....including at least five 14-16 year olds with serious back injuries.

I'm at a level in striking that I rarely get hurt bad during hard sparring. But the few that can put a beating on me, I know when to give up and rest my head for a few weeks or months, then go again. It's just fun. I still train BJJ, but at a LOWER level than I do striking = I don't compete and don't often go 100%. Nothing wrong with admitting to be at a lower level, but these other people get all huffy about it b/c it hurts their EGO. See how people lie when they say they don't have EGO....(and of course, I don't mean yourself).
 
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jayoliver00

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Every time I see the word larping rolled out I am always curious as to what it means to the person who uses it. I (and I may be wrong) assume the person who uses it perceives the following meaning:
TMA: larping
Bjj/MMA: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner with no amateur or professional fight record: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner who has not officially competed with people outside their own school: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner who has never been in an engagement or fight outside their club: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner who doesn't work in security or in an occupation involving the use of their skills: not larping.

If that's the case, it's a little bit difficult to not read it and chuckle at the irony.

Well you need to understand the context of what I meant first, before letting your EGO get the best of you and jumping to conclusions.

It's all about levels. Nothing wrong with being scared. Everyone is scared of something that prevents them from training at the higher to highest levels. It's that people's EGO can't handle it when I point it out. You know that saying about leaving your "Ego at the door"? Well most MA'ists are also hypocrites when it comes to this. I have ego, and I have no problem admitting such.
 
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Snark

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Well you need to understand the context of what I meant first, before letting your EGO get the best of you and jumping to conclusions.

It's all about levels. Nothing wrong with being scared. Everyone is scared of something that prevents them from training at the higher to highest levels. It's that people's EGO can't handle it when I point it out. You know that saying about leaving your "Ego at the door"? Well most MA'ists are also hypocrites when it comes to this. I have ego, and I have no problem admitting such.
Oh I see... Thanks for clearing that up /s.

Do two things for me then pal.

For sure you have an ego, there is plenty of dumb kids with giant egos i've knocked down at my boxing club and you sound like another one of them.

If you really train at a higher level and aren't just "larping" (your term, not mine) like every other amateur in ma 1) Link me to your tapology record. Let's see what your higher training shows.

I am pretty sure you don't even have a fight record.

2) If I've assumed incorrectly take all the items on my list of a "non-larping" bjj/MMA guy and point out what you do and prove it. Easy.

Then you get an apology or maybe people just see what your full of. We'll see.
 
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Snark

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Anyone who thinks they are a badass because they practice the same martial art as a real athlete in the UFC, Bellator WEC, Cage warriors, or equally in boxing needs to stop deluding themselves... your not rockstar are a groupee doing a tribute act and it doesn't mean every other music is rubbish.

I've come to terms with that, have you?
 

Hanzou

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Yeah. Different people fear different things. I was more afraid of getting hit before I got hit some .... one time I remember seeing a flash and then trying to get up off the floor and thinking "that wasn't so bad".

On the other hand, I really would not want to be in that position today. From what we know about the long term effects of brain injury, it's a risk I shouldn't take.

Now you want to talk FEAR ...irrational, mind-numbing fear? Think about this:

As an arachophobe, that wasn't cool. :(
 

Hanzou

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Every time I see the word larping rolled out I am always curious as to what it means to the person who uses it. I (and I may be wrong) assume the person who uses it perceives the following meaning:
TMA: larping
Bjj/MMA: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner with no amateur or professional fight record: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner who has not officially competed with people outside their own school: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner who has never been in an engagement or fight outside their club: not larping
Bjj/MMA practitioner who doesn't work in security or in an occupation involving the use of their skills: not larping.

If that's the case, it's a little bit difficult to not read it and chuckle at the irony.

While I don't agree with everything the person you're responding to has been stating, I will say that a good portion of BJJ exponents can check off the majority of items on that list.

When I think of someone "larping", I think about the people walking around in Ninja or Samurai garb who believe that 16th century Japanese military tactics make them effective warriors. I gotta say, I don't see much of that in Wing Chun circles. WC folks tend to be a bit more grounded in reality, and I wouldn't consider them "larpers".
 

Snark

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While I don't agree with everything the person you're responding to has been stating, I will say that a good portion of BJJ exponents can check off the majority of items on that list.

When I think of someone "larping", I think about the people walking around in Ninja or Samurai garb who believe that 16th century Japanese military tactics make them effective warriors. I gotta say, I don't see much of that in Wing Chun circles. WC folks tend to be a bit more grounded in reality, and I wouldn't consider them "larpers".

that's cool.

tbh you may well be right that a good portion of BJJ exponents can check off the majority of those items, but then I don't have a problem with bjj guys in general.

What i'm interested in is just this guy, this guy who claims he trains at a higher level and is making insinuations about TCMAs being larpers.

I want to see evidence that he is the big deal he is claiming to be and the least he can do is direct me to his tapology record, so I can check with the team to make sure it's him.

He can always DM me if he's scared to publicly post it.
 

jayoliver00

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Oh I see... Thanks for clearing that up /s.

Do two things for me then pal.

For sure you have an ego, there is plenty of dumb kids with giant egos i've knocked down at my boxing club and you sound like another one of them.

If you really train at a higher level and aren't just "larping" (your term, not mine) like every other amateur in ma 1) Link me to your tapology record. Let's see what your higher training shows.

I am pretty sure you don't even have a fight record.

2) If I've assumed incorrectly take all the items on my list of a "non-larping" bjj/MMA guy and point out what you do and prove it. Easy.

Then you get an apology or maybe people just see what your full of. We'll see.

Calm down toughguy, I train and fight as a hobbyist, not a profession; nor claimed such. Why don't you show me your tapology record, and then maybe proof that you graduated high school since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit?

And what's wrong with ego; you clearly have plenty of it; bragging about your big bad self was knocking down "dumb kids". You're so scary, LOL.
 
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jayoliver00

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Anyone who thinks they are a badass because they practice the same martial art as a real athlete in the UFC, Bellator WEC, Cage warriors, or equally in boxing needs to stop deluding themselves... your not rockstar are a groupee doing a tribute act and it doesn't mean every other music is rubbish.

I've come to terms with that, have you?

You need to calm down and work on your reading comprehension skills. Getting all hysterical w/o even understanding what was conveyed.
 

jayoliver00

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While I don't agree with everything the person you're responding to has been stating, I will say that a good portion of BJJ exponents can check off the majority of items on that list.

When I think of someone "larping", I think about the people walking around in Ninja or Samurai garb who believe that 16th century Japanese military tactics make them effective warriors. I gotta say, I don't see much of that in Wing Chun circles. WC folks tend to be a bit more grounded in reality, and I wouldn't consider them "larpers".

His problem is, he not too good a reading comprehension and/or he's getting all emotional & raging over the keyboard; thinking everyone's out to get him.
 

Snark

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His problem is, he not too good a reading comprehension and/or he's getting all emotional & raging over the keyboard; thinking everyone's out to get him.


Lmfao. Sure..... You say you train at a higher level and act like your some sort of expert and professional. So I ask for your tapology record and your... "Eeewww noooo, show me yours, your hysterical, you don't read good. I'm not scared and playing a big man (despite me claiming all you guys were scared)...Whine"

I ask you to do two things pal and you don't even address them, and you claim my reading comprehension is bad.

your exactly what I thought you were.

Honestly though, thanks. I haven't laughed like this in a while.
 
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jayoliver00

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Lmfao. Sure..... You say you train at a higher level and act like your some sort of expert and professional. So I ask for your tapology record and your... "Eeewww noooo, show me yours, your hysterical, you don't read good. Whine"

Show me where I stated that "at a higher level" meant "some sort of expert and professional".

You can't, can you? See? You're just getting all hysterical and it has clouded your brain.

I ask you to do two things pal and you don't even address them, and you claim my reading comprehension is bad.

your exactly what I thought you were. Thanks for the laugh.

Now you're just crying because of your weak reading comprehension skills + you're being easily triggered into hysteria, causing you to not understand in context what I posted; just b/c I questioned your type of training being of "lower levels".
 

Snark

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Show me where I stated that "at a higher level" meant "some sort of expert and professional".

You can't, can you? See? You're just getting all hysterical and it has clouded your brain.



Now you're just crying because of your weak reading comprehension skills + you're being easily triggered into hysteria, causing you to not understand in context what I posted; just b/c I questioned your type of training being of "lower levels".
Lmao. Does your mum know you've gotten round the parental locks on her computer?
 

Snark

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I guess that's why it's called, Martial Arts; not Larping Arts.

Don't feel bad, you just train at a lower level, that is all.

So I know your super smart and all, but you'll notice when you "questioned" people training at a lower level, you didn't use a question mark and kinda made a statement.

I guess that's big brains for you. Lol.
 

jayoliver00

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So I know your super smart and all, but you'll notice when you "questioned" people training at a lower level, you didn't use a question mark and kinda made a statement.

I guess that's big brains for you. Lol.

You're getting hysterical again. Try taking a deep breath and calm down. Since you weren't taught to be calm & collected at home, or maybe it's ADD; I will help you.

All I said was that if you're afraid to train to fight, which would include hard sparring up to KO power, then you're training at the lower level.

While training at the higher levels, doesn't automatically mean Pro Fighter and/or being on the UFC's roster. But in your hysterical state, you just thought that b/c I hurt you precious ego. So you went on a rage posting tirade, screaming bloody murder or something.

Understand now? You're welcome.
 

Snark

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You're getting hysterical again. Try taking a deep breath and calm down. Since you weren't taught to be calm & collected at home, or maybe it's ADD; I will help you.

All I said was that if you're afraid to train to fight, which would include hard sparring up to KO power, then you're training at the lower level.

While training at the higher levels, doesn't automatically mean Pro Fighter and/or being on the UFC's roster. But in your hysterical state, you just thought that b/c I hurt you precious ego. So you went on a rage posting tirade, screaming bloody murder or something.

Understand now? You're welcome.

Yawn...looks like lotsa name calling.

I did two things.
1. Made an assumption of what you meant by larping and admitted I could well be wrong.
2. Asked you to provide some sort of proof that you train at a higher level, which you are unable to do so you seem to be pointing lots at me and repeating that i'm hysterical. (Bit weird but whatever).

You know tapology also records lots of amateur fights and fighters (over 275,000) YouTube is full of competition fights there are websites with rankings of fighters boxers, MMA and bjj competitions. I asked to be pointed to one by you to prove your credentials as someone who trains at this higher level.... And I will check it.

...and you haven't, you just keep calling me hysterical.

I don't mean to assume stuff about you, but it's kinda hard not to now.

I am beginning to think you haven't had a competition fight in your life.
 
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