Az. Gov And Immigration

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...on-recipients-drivers-licenses-164837285.html

A group of young illegal immigrants in Phoenix was preparing for a rally on Wednesday evening to celebrate the first day they were allowed to apply for relief from deportation and a two-year work permit under President Barack Obama's deferred action plan. But a half-hour before the 5 p.m. rally was to begin, a young member of the Arizona Dream Act Coalition started crying. "Guys, we have really bad news," she said, according to another activist, Erika Andiola, who was there.
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer had released a strongly worded executive order preventing deferred action recipients from obtaining driver's licenses or any other unspecified "public benefits" in her state, renewing her public spat with the White House over illegal immigration.
The celebration stopped. Instead, Andiola and 100 other people turned their rally into a march to the Capitol to protest the move, and about 30 people stayed overnight.
Brewer writes in the order that as many as 80,000 young people in Arizona could benefit from the new status, which gives young illegal immigrants under age 31 who came to the country as children relief from deportation and a two-year work permit. Brewer notes that the deferred action status does not make its recipients legal immigrants per se; it's more a limbo state where the immigrants are now not deportable and legally able to work but are not progressing toward a green card or other permanent legal status.

I'm far from an expert on immigration. Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding a few things here, but some parts of this caught my eye.

"Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer had released a strongly worded executive order preventing deferred action recipients from obtaining driver's licenses or any other unspecified "public benefits" in her state, renewing her public spat with the White House over illegal immigration."

I am reading this correct, in that they're talking about a drivers license, and not a state ID. Perhaps I'm missing something but how can you just hand out DL's without the person actually taking a driving exam, as well as a written test? Now, its been quite some time since I took my exam, but I recall a computer generated test, as well as the behind the wheel exam, which of course also consisted of a set number of hours of drivers training.

"Brewer writes in the order that as many as 80,000 young people in Arizona could benefit from the new status, which gives young illegal immigrants under age 31 who came to the country as children relief from deportation and a two-year work permit. Brewer notes that the deferred action status does not make its recipients legal immigrants per se; it's more a limbo state where the immigrants are now not deportable and legally able to work but are not progressing toward a green card or other permanent legal status."

Ok, so they get a 2-yr. work permit. Fine. What happens after the 2yrs? It also says that this doesn't make them legal citizens, but they're in limbo. So, what does that mean? What happens after that?

Hey, like I've said, I'm all for someone coming to the US to better themselves, providing they do it by the book. Go thru the process. But, and again, I may be misunderstanding, but it seems like there's some questionable things here. Of course, the Gov. seems to be making quite a bit of waves as well.
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
A better question might be why hasn't the US Supreme Court addressed the blatant illegality of Obama's Royal Decree, er, executive order.
In this country the President is NOT empowered to change laws at whim.
 

David43515

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,383
Reaction score
50
Location
Sapporo, Japan
Was this done by executive order? I thought I recalled it being in congress. I could be wrong, I miss alo t of news over here. But being an immigrant myself, I think the most basic thing around is obeying the laws of the country you're entering from the get go. And if you're here illegaly because your parents brought you here that way....you're still here illeagaly. If you need to apply for a visa to stay, do so. If that means you have to go stay with relatives in another country while the paperwork goes through, do so. I've got no problem with the provision that allows them to obtaain US citizenship after serving time in the armed forces and being honorably discharged.

I think it's crazy that public universities ( ie: supported by the state's taxpayers) in many states give illegal aliens state discounts on tuition while citizens from out of state are charged extra.
 

Wo Fat

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
351
Reaction score
10
Location
Southeastern US
If the children of immigrants (who arrived here through no fault or choice of their own) grow up and become the good citizens that we all expect from each other, then I have no problem with them getting a driver's license--provided they actually take the same tests as everyone else.
 

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
How about they take some citizenship tests, swear an oath, and become -legal- citizens?

You want to excuse them because they came here as children? Fine. They've been here long enough, give them the test, make them legal.

Until then, no. No license, no food stamps, no aid. Illegal means illegal.
 

Takai

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
75
Location
PNW
@David Nope, Obama did this all by himself by executive fiat.

How about they take some citizenship tests, swear an oath, and become -legal- citizens?

You want to excuse them because they came here as children? Fine. They've been here long enough, give them the test, make them legal.

Until then, no. No license, no food stamps, no aid. Illegal means illegal.

Well put. The company I work for has a lot of immigrants working for it. (The owners are from Spain and Brazil). The are all either legal citizens now or on a seasonal work visa. The owners are completely against illegal immigrants. The came over and did it the right way (it wasn't easy) but, they have absolutely no use for people that "work" the "system" to "help" them along and aren't even citizens.
 

Wo Fat

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
351
Reaction score
10
Location
Southeastern US
How about they take some citizenship tests, swear an oath, and become -legal- citizens?

You want to excuse them because they came here as children? Fine. They've been here long enough, give them the test, make them legal.

Until then, no. No license, no food stamps, no aid. Illegal means illegal.

Who says that most of those young people won't do those things?
 

cdunn

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
868
Reaction score
36
Location
Greensburg, PA
Can't do that, Bob, they're statistically more likely to vote Democratic if they become citizens.

We can, and should give them a legal path to residency, though citizenship may require some additional work on their part; after all, they didn't choose to come here in the first place. It's the right thing to do on a humanitarian basis, and it expands the tax base and possibly even the economy if they have access to legal ways to create business. Deferring their deportation is legal and practical; and we do have violent criminals and possible terrorists coming cross border, that's where the focus should be, not kids that mom dragged across the border ten years ago.

This is basically the same as a plea bargain. Stand up, be registered, apply for a work permit, and we can still kick you out in two years if we decide we want to.
 

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
772
Location
Land of the Free
With this amnesty issued, has there been any movement on their parts towards seeking citizenship?
 

Wo Fat

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
351
Reaction score
10
Location
Southeastern US
@David Nope, Obama did this all by himself by executive fiat.



Well put. The company I work for has a lot of immigrants working for it. (The owners are from Spain and Brazil). The are all either legal citizens now or on a seasonal work visa. The owners are completely against illegal immigrants. The came over and did it the right way (it wasn't easy) but, they have absolutely no use for people that "work" the "system" to "help" them along and aren't even citizens.

What, exactly, is "the right way" emigrate and become a US citizen?
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
What, exactly, is "the right way" emigrate and become a US citizen?

Legally. No, I'm not going to research exactly what it takes to emigrate legally for you. I will tell you I know a few people who have emigrated and gotten their US citizenship and it was neither as cheap nor as easy as sneaking across a border or overstaying a visa.
 
OP
M

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
Was this done by executive order? I thought I recalled it being in congress. I could be wrong, I miss alo t of news over here. But being an immigrant myself, I think the most basic thing around is obeying the laws of the country you're entering from the get go. And if you're here illegaly because your parents brought you here that way....you're still here illeagaly. If you need to apply for a visa to stay, do so. If that means you have to go stay with relatives in another country while the paperwork goes through, do so. I've got no problem with the provision that allows them to obtaain US citizenship after serving time in the armed forces and being honorably discharged.

I think it's crazy that public universities ( ie: supported by the state's taxpayers) in many states give illegal aliens state discounts on tuition while citizens from out of state are charged extra.

Yeah, that's always been something that's been confusing to me. If you're here illegally, yes, you're illegal. OTOH, IMHO, if your parents are here illegally, and they have you here, how can you be a citizen? Yeah, I know, you were born here, but I still can't wrap my head around that, and frankly, I don't think it makes sense. IMO, you're illegal too.

As for the rest of your post....yes, I agree.
 
OP
M

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
If the children of immigrants (who arrived here through no fault or choice of their own) grow up and become the good citizens that we all expect from each other, then I have no problem with them getting a driver's license--provided they actually take the same tests as everyone else.

Neither do I, however, as I understand that article, I didn't see anything about a test. That's what has be scratching my head. How the hell can you give someone a DL without a test, both written and actual behind the wheel time?
 
OP
M

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
Who says that most of those young people won't do those things?

Perhaps they will, however, as I like to say....kids learn what they live. If their parents aren't going to take the necessary steps, why would the kids?
 

Empty Hands

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
4,269
Reaction score
200
Location
Jupiter, FL
OTOH, IMHO, if your parents are here illegally, and they have you here, how can you be a citizen?

By the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The only way that will change is by constitutional amendment. The people we are talking about here came with their parents as children. If they are born here, then they are citizens.
 

Wo Fat

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
351
Reaction score
10
Location
Southeastern US
Neither do I, however, as I understand that article, I didn't see anything about a test. That's what has be scratching my head. How the hell can you give someone a DL without a test, both written and actual behind the wheel time?

For actual driving knowledge and ability purposes, I'm with you.
 

Latest Discussions

Top