Alabama’s immigration reform again cuts unemployment

[Big Don]

Alabama’s immigration reform again cuts unemployment
6:50 PM 01/20/2012
Daily Caller Excerpt:

Alabama’s unemployment rate continues to drop amid state-wide enforcement of a new immigration law, despite Democratic efforts to block and stigmatize the popular reform.

December’s unemployment rate fell to 8.1 percent, down from 8.7 percent in November and 9.8 percent in September.

“In the last three months alone, we’ve seen an unprecedented drop of 1.7 percentage points,” noted Alabama Republican Gov. Robert Bentley in a Jan. 20 statement.

“Our rate is once again below the national average, and over 41,000 more Alabamians are employed now than at the beginning of the year… but we still have work to do,” said Bentley.

The drop began after a bipartisan 2011 law toughened the state’s immigration enforcement policies.

The reform prompted many low-skilled illegal immigrants to leave the state, and was slammed by advocates for illegal immigrants, including Tom Perez, the chief of the Justice Department’s civil regulation division.

Many established media outlets have highlighted the departing illegals and controversial portions of the law — which forced schools to verify the immigration status of students, while downplaying the employment gains and the law’s popularity.

Perez and immigration advocates have sued the state to halt enforcement of the apparent employment-boosting measure.

The Democrats’ focus on immigration is largely intended to rally Hispanic voters behind President Barack Obama.

Multiple polls show that Hispanic-American voters believe that jobs and education are their top political issues.

END EXCERPT
Gee, I guess Americans WILL do those jobs after all...

 

[granfire]

and like any place else, there are a lot of people who gave up looking.
Or one of the 3 major instate employers (or all three) has resumed hireing. Knock me over with a feather, I don't remember, but I am meaning to say Mercedes has lifted the hiring freeze, and of course we had a few million dollars worth of storm damage this spring, all things that need to be rebuild.

Still, it's too early. Let spring roll around and we see how things really fair. You know, like farm work...construction (according to unsubstanciated sources there has been a shortage in trades people all along...I am not seeing this changing any time soon...so we see the construction world evolve come pretty weather...)

And 'those' jobs are not back open yet. It's January and raining. The tomatoes won't go in for another 3 month.

 

[granfire]

We had another construction industry stimulus this morning....Jefferson County got hit hard early, several houses destroyed, one confirmed dead....

 

[ballen0351]

Alabama’s immigration reform again cuts unemployment
6:50 PM 01/20/2012
Daily Caller Excerpt:

Alabama’s unemployment rate continues to drop amid state-wide enforcement of a new immigration law, despite Democratic efforts to block and stigmatize the popular reform.

December’s unemployment rate fell to 8.1 percent, down from 8.7 percent in November and 9.8 percent in September.

“In the last three months alone, we’ve seen an unprecedented drop of 1.7 percentage points,” noted Alabama Republican Gov. Robert Bentley in a Jan. 20 statement.

“Our rate is once again below the national average, and over 41,000 more Alabamians are employed now than at the beginning of the year… but we still have work to do,” said Bentley.

The drop began after a bipartisan 2011 law toughened the state’s immigration enforcement policies.

The reform prompted many low-skilled illegal immigrants to leave the state, and was slammed by advocates for illegal immigrants, including Tom Perez, the chief of the Justice Department’s civil regulation division.

Many established media outlets have highlighted the departing illegals and controversial portions of the law — which forced schools to verify the immigration status of students, while downplaying the employment gains and the law’s popularity.

Perez and immigration advocates have sued the state to halt enforcement of the apparent employment-boosting measure.

The Democrats’ focus on immigration is largely intended to rally Hispanic voters behind President Barack Obama.

Multiple polls show that Hispanic-American voters believe that jobs and education are their top political issues.

END EXCERPT
Gee, I guess Americans WILL do those jobs after all...

Impossible that law was made to target brown people with accents and is Racist to the core. Who cares if it allows American Citizens to find work what about the Billions we need to send back to other countries what about thier economys?

 

[ballen0351]

and like any place else, there are a lot of people who gave up looking.
Or one of the 3 major instate employers (or all three) has resumed hireing. Knock me over with a feather, I don't remember, but I am meaning to say Mercedes has lifted the hiring freeze, and of course we had a few million dollars worth of storm damage this spring, all things that need to be rebuild.

Still, it's too early. Let spring roll around and we see how things really fair. You know, like farm work...construction (according to unsubstanciated sources there has been a shortage in trades people all along...I am not seeing this changing any time soon...so we see the construction world evolve come pretty weather...)

And 'those' jobs are not back open yet. It's January and raining. The tomatoes won't go in for another 3 month.

Gee try and tone down the positive attitude there.

 

[granfire]

Gee try and tone down the positive attitude there.

Over here?
What are you smoking?!

Edited to add:

There is no doubt in my mind that the law was only drafted to target the little brown people who don't speak English.
It's a quickfix law to combat a 'problem' that it does not apply to.

yes, there are a lot of people out of work. But these are people who really don't want the jobs the little brown people have. Because those jobs pay lousy are dirty and back breaking. The whole impact of this law won't be felt until a few month from now, when the produce needs to be harvested and there are a lot of houses to be rebuild.
Those are not the well paying desk jobs a lot of these unemployed people are waiting for.

And on that note, here in town about 2200 people are about to lose their jobs. Cutbacks....


Above all, I would love to see a direct relation between the law and the sinking unemployment rate.
It's a game of numbers, a statistic matter.
The numbers you put in determin the results.
In this case reclassify some folks, have a few drop out of the search for a job, put few on social security....and there you go, you dropped a few points. Add to that that we are having a a mild winter so far, meaning that more construction can be done than say last year when it was freezing cold this time of the year.

A few fractions of percentage points don't impress me. Shave off a whole point!


I think it's a bad law, not well thought out.

Oh, btw, this is a state with 3 of it's major employers being from abroad.

 

[ballen0351]

Over here?
What are you smoking?!

Yeah I was being sarcastic I've never seen somone so negative about positive job news

 

[granfire]

Yeah I was being sarcastic I've never seen somone so negative about positive job news

:lfao:

You have never lived here....

no it's not the job news, it the BS conclusions drawn.

 

[Big Don]

There is no doubt in my mind that the law was only drafted to target the little brown people who don't speak English.

Who is the racist? The one who writes and passes a law targeting illegal aliens or the ones who generalize illegals as:

the little brown people who don't speak English.

For the record, illegal aliens come in all races, from all countries and speak a variety of languages.
Colonel Parker, Elvis' manager was in the US illegally, which is why Elvis never did a world tour...

 

[granfire]

Who is the racist? The one who writes and passes a law targeting illegal aliens or the ones who generalize illegals as:
For the record, illegal aliens come in all races, from all countries and speak a variety of languages.
Colonel Parker, Elvis' manager was in the US illegally, which is why Elvis never did a world tour...

Get a grip, will you.

You know good and well that when 'illegals' is thrown around it's not the non Hispanics.
Don't call me ignorant when people have a hard time to distinguish even between legal and illegal immigration, or the difference between a 'Mexican' and somebody from elsewhere.

You know as well as I do that laws like that do not target people who look 'American'.

 

[Big Don]

Get a grip, will you.

You know good and well that when 'illegals' is thrown around it's not the non Hispanics.
Don't call me ignorant when people have a hard time to distinguish even between legal and illegal immigration, or the difference between a 'Mexican' and somebody from elsewhere.

You know as well as I do that laws like that do not target people who look 'American'.

Translation:
"I'm not a racist, I'm not, I'm not!" (Even though I said racist things)

 

[granfire]

Translation:
"I'm not a racist, I'm not, I'm not!" (Even though I said racist things)

:lol:

Have you lived under a rock the last 4 years or so?
Do you need a dumb ole immigrant to explain to you how this is working?

The Good People see their nest eggs cracked and jobs go away, they panic. They turn with a vengeance on the one group you can still dump on...
it's the politicians bandaid to what ails you.
it has only not hit the fan so far as it is WINTER and all those fun jobs are dormant right now. Maybe with the exception of sexing chickens for Tyson.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade, and this is clearly aimed at a certain segment of the population of a precise ethnic background and a noticeable skin tone.

it's the lovely numbers game:

Evil illegals occupy x number of J-O-B-S
and you have Y number of citizens out of a J-O-B

However, the jobs and the seekers don't hardly intersect.
The seekers most often do not want to work 8-10 hours in a sun backed field, hunched over or packed down with heavy buckets or crates, or tossing chicks into appropriate barrels in a stinking chicken house. And I mean smell stink!

So far the head of lettuce still costs the same as it did in fall as it still is being shipped in from Florida or Cali...We'll see in summer.

 

[billc]

I don't care what country they are from, if they are here illegally, they need to be deported. Racism is the lazy persons argument. I don't agree with you wanting to uphold the law against people who are here illegally so instead of discussing the issue, I'll just say you just want people from mexico deported, and then I'll call you a racist...end of argument, you are the bad guy, I'm superior because I called you a racist...wash, rinse, repeat.

oh, and by supporting illegal immigration you are supporting the exploitation of people who are from mexico. Just read what you posted. If they were legal workers, they would be able to organize and get better wages and working conditions. Since they are illegal, they can be exploited for their labor and can't get help. Cheap labor at slave wages, and supporters of illegal immigration prop up that practice.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Say what you want about the law, it doesn't get down to the real reason for unemployment. Deindustrialization. Laws like this will do little but move fractions of percentage points, they do not give those in the Western world jobs that pay off houses, cars or put kids through school. Until we can compete on an equal footing with China, India and Brazil, we will have few manufacturing jobs. Get use to it and be prepared to change your life styles and career choices.

 

[billc]

Today on Rush he talked about the company in China that makes the Ipad, or Iphone, for apple. There is no way an American company can compete with the borg collective that they use to manufacture products. The company Foxcon(?) has a factory that uses over 200,000 people, 60,000 live in dormitories on site, the rest right next to the factory. They work 12 hour days, 6 days a week, for 17 dollars a week(?). They needed something like 8,000 engineers and were able to hire them in 15 days due to little or no labor laws. The same number of hires here in the states would take 9 months, because of all the employment hoops an employer has to jump through. I believe he was reading from a New York times article that was attacking Apples manufacturing practices. Now that Jobs is dead, apple no longer has the protection of the Obama regime, and should expect attacks from the government fairly soon.

Here is Rush reading from the article, and there are follow up articles below it...I give you the borg collective..

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/01/23/why_apple_can_t_make_iphones_in_america

RUSH: The New York Times over the weekend had a story about why Apple's products are assembled in China. Why aren't they made in America. Apple has something like 43,000 employees in America, not counting the retail employees, 43,000 employees at their headquarters in Cupertino. It's a long piece that prints out to 14 pages. It recounts the fact that Jobs once had dinner with all these high-tech guys out in California, Jobs and Zuckerberg and so forth, and at that dinner Jobs told Obama, (paraphrasing) "These jobs are never coming back, Mr. President, and we don't understand why you say that nothing can be done about this. This is the greatest country on earth. These particular jobs, the flexibility we need cannot happen in the United States." And this New York Times story spells it out. As I say, they leave out one crucial factor here and that's unions, to help explain why manufacturing in America can't compete with the way the ChiComs do it.

The article sited by Rush:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/b...queezed-middle-class.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States. In China, it took 15 days.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-united-states-never-ever-204125112.html

What does it mean to "scale up" faster? For Foxconn, the global manufacturing behemoth Apple pays to assemble its products, it's the ability to hire thousands of new workers in a single day. It's being able to wake up 8,000 employees, herd them out of the company's on-sight dorms, and order them pull a midnight shift fastening glass screens onto phones. In China, workers are cheap, plentiful, and -- most importantly -- mind bogglingly compliant in ways that America's culture and its tightly enforced labor laws simply wouldn't allow. Yes, Foxconn's notoriously harsh treatment of its employees led to a now-notorious spate of suicides. But how many Americans in the 21st century can you see under any circumstances agreeing to live in, say, a General Motors dorm?

Here is some more on the borg collective Foxconn...

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2012/01/new-york-times-ode-to-foxconn-and-anti.html

To Apple executives, Foxconn City was further evidence that China could deliver workers — and diligence — that outpaced their American counterparts.

“That’s because nothing like Foxconn City exists in the United States.


The facility has 230,000 employees, many working six days a week, often spending up to 12 hours a day at the plant. Over a quarter of Foxconn’s work force lives in company barracks and many workers earn less than $17 a day. When one Apple executive arrived during a shift change, his car was stuck in a river of employees streaming past. “The scale is unimaginable,” he said.


Foxconn employs nearly 300 guards to direct foot traffic so workers are not crushed in doorway bottlenecks. The facility’s central kitchen cooks an average of three tons of pork and 13 tons of rice a day. While factories are spotless, the air inside nearby teahouses is hazy with the smoke and stench of cigarettes.


“They could hire 3,000 people overnight,” said Jennifer Rigoni, who was Apple’s worldwide supply demand manager until 2010, but declined to discuss specifics of her work. “What U.S. plant can find 3,000 people overnight and convince them to live in dorms?””​

Yes, “convince” them to live them in dorms complete with anti-suicide netting at no extra charge.

I think that if you are a union sympathizer, parachute in union organizers to Foxconn. This is where the real unions are needed, to cripple Chinas advantage in manufacturing by raising wages and benefits with union thugs to enforce them.

 

[Cryozombie]

I have a strange, and probably unpopular, question regarding the issue of Illegal Aliens and the "jobs no one else wants".

Can someone please explain to me how the position that we need to allow illegal aliens to work because if we didn't the jobs wouldn't get done or would make the cost of goods go up if they were paid a "fair" wage is defensible in this day and age? Call me kooky... but isn't that the exact thing we argue was the positive basis for Unions... busting up the underpaid, sweatshop like labor conditions that somehow are OK if you are, to steal a quote from above "little brown people who don't speak English".

PERSONALLY... I think it's far more Racist to justify letting them work for unfair wages and to insist that they are the only ones who would stoop to doing it, than it is for the nation to enforce the laws it has in place to control the influx of population. While there may be one or two somewhere, I'm not aware of any nations that don't exercise SOME form of immigration control... but for some reason the US is racist for enforcing theirs, while at the same time NOT racist for paying "those people" an almost Slave Like wage?

Sorry, but *I* don't buy it.

 

[granfire]

I have a strange, and probably unpopular, question regarding the issue of Illegal Aliens and the "jobs no one else wants".

Can someone please explain to me how the position that we need to allow illegal aliens to work because if we didn't the jobs wouldn't get done or would make the cost of goods go up if they were paid a "fair" wage is defensible in this day and age? Call me kooky... but isn't that the exact thing we argue was the positive basis for Unions... busting up the underpaid, sweatshop like labor conditions that somehow are OK if you are, to steal a quote from above "little brown people who don't speak English".

PERSONALLY... I think it's far more Racist to justify letting them work for unfair wages and to insist that they are the only ones who would stoop to doing it, than it is for the nation to enforce the laws it has in place to control the influx of population. While there may be one or two somewhere, I'm not aware of any nations that don't exercise SOME form of immigration control... but for some reason the US is racist for enforcing theirs, while at the same time NOT racist for paying "those people" an almost Slave Like wage?

Sorry, but *I* don't buy it.

Well, you have a very good point.
But do you have a fix for it?
I don't.

I can't speak for construction work, only for the agricultural sector.
The jobs are bound to the area, you can't up and move your farm if you chose to.
The profit margin is small in the business, you have to keep labor cost down. After all, the dozen eggs should not cost more than 2 bucks, a pound of chicken even less, and the bundle of celery about one dollar.

In the times of plenty you just could not fill these jobs. These are low pay - even at minimum wage, dirty, no benefits most of the time past what Uncle Sam demands you get, like this one week paid vacation a year.
What you were able to hire in the past for the job for that money, It was truly horrifying. You know, the type of people that make 4% full employment.


Hard manual labor is no longer acceptable in our society. We all want to be 'something better' than our parents and in generations off the farm we have forgotten how gratifying it can be. But somebody has to pick the strawberries for the city dwellers. If not here, then in Chile or Mexico.
We have screwed up somewhere, that's for sure.

However, on many jobs, the money to be earned can be really good. But you have to be strong and fast. So it's not exactly that all the jobs are like slave labor.

After a whole lot of blah blah, what I really meant to say is I think the economy is depending on those folks to keep the wagon out of the muck. Keep the food cheap - which has always been a politicians main concern, since before Caesar and the dirt out of sight.
In state laws like the one in Alabama don't address any of that. They are feel-good laws for the population who does get to vote. Nothing more. They skirt the realities.

The federal government needs to get off it's collective behind and figure out a way to provide more legal visas to these people.
but when you put the numbers down on paper, it probably puts more money in the coffers and supports the politicians better if the status quo is upheld: You still have the enemy#1 for the little folk, after all, Al Quaida isn't going to strike in Podunk
Many illegals operate under false Social Security numbers, paying taxes for benefits they will never be able to claim.
Keeping the economy rolling on a lower price - cheap food = happy peasants

On the down side of course there is the money being drained from the states as a lot of the people working here send much of their income to support the family back home.
Oh well, it's called the American dream....

 

[ballen0351]

Well, you have a very good point.
But do you have a fix for it?
I don't.

I can't speak for construction work, only for the agricultural sector.
The jobs are bound to the area, you can't up and move your farm if you chose to.
The profit margin is small in the business, you have to keep labor cost down. After all, the dozen eggs should not cost more than 2 bucks, a pound of chicken even less, and the bundle of celery about one dollar.

Yes and no. The prices should reflect what the market dictates. If you need to pay more to attract workers then the prices need to go up. It sucks as a consumer but it is what it is. Thats the part the Left does not understand about free market they cry about low wages and needing unions to protect the workers. When in reality if the job sucks and dont pay well then people wont do it until the pay gets better. But that also goes along with something else you said later that we do need to allow for more people to come here the Legal way and only on a temp basis. They dont need to bring there entire family just to work in a field for a few months out of the year. Thats where the burdon on the state gets too high paying for schooling, food stamps, amd medical treatment for familys that should not be here in the first place. We have enough of a drain on our society with our own citizens we dont need to support other countries as well.

In the times of plenty you just could not fill these jobs. These are low pay - even at minimum wage, dirty, no benefits most of the time past what Uncle Sam demands you get, like this one week paid vacation a year.
What you were able to hire in the past for the job for that money, It was truly horrifying. You know, the type of people that make 4% full employment.

Goes back to a free market solution and letting the market dictate what a far wage is for the job. If an employer places an ad for help wanted and nobody shows up then he needs to find a way to make people want the job. On a flip side if he places the add and 100's of people show up for a few positions then he may be able to lower his compensation

Hard manual labor is no longer acceptable in our society. We all want to be 'something better' than our parents and in generations off the farm we have forgotten how gratifying it can be. But somebody has to pick the strawberries for the city dwellers. If not here, then in Chile or Mexico.
We have screwed up somewhere, that's for sure.

Seems to me in the day and age of Playstations and netflix working in general is no longer acceptable in society. Reminds me of the cartoon Walle buch of fat people strapped to chairs.

However, on many jobs, the money to be earned can be really good. But you have to be strong and fast. So it's not exactly that all the jobs are like slave labor.

After a whole lot of blah blah, what I really meant to say is I think the economy is depending on those folks to keep the wagon out of the muck. Keep the food cheap - which has always been a politicians main concern, since before Caesar and the dirt out of sight.
In state laws like the one in Alabama don't address any of that. They are feel-good laws for the population who does get to vote. Nothing more. They skirt the realities.

The problem is illegals are a drain to the state budgets. They use resources and dont put anything back in for a return on investment. My state is a sanctuary state. We are going broke. When I tried to register my kid for Pre-school in public schools I was told there were no spots and was told by the counsler it was not worth sending my kid to the preschool anyway since 85% of the kids in the class cant speak english. My kids now go to private schools just to get a basic education. As a police officer I would bet 40% of all our calls deal with illegal immigrants in some way shape or form from driving violations and accients where they are unlicensed and dont have insurance, Domestic violence, or victims of crimes because they tend to carry large sums of money and not use banks so they are always getting robbed. And because of that Gangs like MS13, Surenos, and Sur13 are recruting heavily. We have seen in increase in Gang activity all the way down into elementary schools.

The federal government needs to get off it's collective behind and figure out a way to provide more legal visas to these people.
but when you put the numbers down on paper, it probably puts more money in the coffers and supports the politicians better if the status quo is upheld: You still have the enemy#1 for the little folk, after all, Al Quaida isn't going to strike in Podunk

Many of the 911 hijackers were living in small towns and communities prior to bording the planes. So they are in the Podunk people just dont believe it or choose to ignore it.

Many illegals operate under false Social Security numbers, paying taxes for benefits they will never be able to claim.

It still doesnt equal out to whats being paid into the system. I know in my state you dont need to prove your a citizen to get on welfare. They are not allowed to ask. They dont need to provide citizenship to enroll kids in public schools either. We are not allowed to ask when we deal with them on the streets which is a catch 22 since if your not a citizen and are arrested we are required to notify your home countrys embassy that you were arrested and of we dont the case can be throw out.

On the down side of course there is the money being drained from the states as a lot of the people working here send much of their income to support the family back home.

I read somewhere that Mexico gets more money imported thru Western Union or other services like that then they actually make exporting products.

Oh well, it's called the American dream....

And it should be reserved for Americans or those that came here legally.

 

[granfire]

Well, Hon, it's America from the Frozen Canadian North to the tip of Terra de Fuego.


I hear you loud and clear, you are absolutely right, but it's not solved on a state level. But DC is broken beyond repair.

On the other hand, industries that rely heavily on the immigrant work force get obstacles put in their way when they try to be legal and get the paperwork done.
On paper the numbers look good, you got job, fill it with a local.
But when you go down to, you can't hand the lead rope of a 1200 pound high strung animal to just any warm body off the street (NY race tracks ran into a problem I think last summer, providing their temp stable hands with visas). While you do not need to be able to write your name, it's a skill and lifestyle only few are willing to accept.

I am laying blame solely at the feet of the politicians: They make a living of creating an artificial environment of 'us vs them'
I don't blame people who want the same thing we want for our families: Not driving past a drug gang unloading 2 truck loads of dead bodies on the main thoroughfare during evening rush hour!

I also can understand to an extend how the gangs find this group a fertile ground for their recruiting efforts. Don't want it, but I understand it. There is a base need for security in human nature. As an individual constantly on the lookout, I suppose the gang 'family' provides that.

Still, before Don and Bill call me names like a bleeding heart or Democrat, or worse yet, Liberal lol I understand, but don't want it.


Also: you said the 9/11 guys lived in Podunk. Sure, but they struck in NYC...

And as I said, cheap food is the base concern for the population. Always has been, always will.
That puts farmers on the very bottom rung of any pay scale. Always.

To put the money into a farm the way they deserve it by ways of actual cost and labor, you look at a 3$/lbs Turkey, not the 99 cents you can score from the big guys.

 

[ballen0351]

Well, Hon, it's America from the Frozen Canadian North to the tip of Terra de Fuego.

True and the Canadians can take care of the canadians and the mexicans can take care of the mexicans and so on and so on.

I hear you loud and clear, you are absolutely right, but it's not solved on a state level. But DC is broken beyond repair.

I agree but whats a state supposed to do when the Fed Govt wont do its job. With states going broke they are running out of answers. Ive aked illegals several times how they ended up where I am in the Washington Dc area 1000's of miles from the border and they tell me there are too many of them in the south that they cant even find work they needed to move north. Now thats pretty sad and I cant imagin the numbers of illegals there must be in places like Texas Alabama, Arizona, ect.

On the other hand, industries that rely heavily on the immigrant work force get obstacles put in their way when they try to be legal and get the paperwork done.

True we dealwith this every summer we have a large sea food industry mostly crabs and oysters and the picking and packing houses rely heavily on visas to fill the numbers.

On paper the numbers look good, you got job, fill it with a local.
But when you go down to, you can't hand the lead rope of a 1200 pound high strung animal to just any warm body off the street (NY race tracks ran into a problem I think last summer, providing their temp stable hands with visas). While you do not need to be able to write your name, it's a skill and lifestyle only few are willing to accept.

I agree again but any improvement means local people found a job and thats a good thing

I am laying blame solely at the feet of the politicians: They make a living of creating an artificial environment of 'us vs them'
I don't blame people who want the same thing we want for our families: Not driving past a drug gang unloading 2 truck loads of dead bodies on the main thoroughfare during evening rush hour!

And they need to stay in their own countries and try to fix them not run and live off our tax payers that are already struggling. I also blame the politicians and they need to step up and do something because what we are doing now is not working.

I also can understand to an extend how the gangs find this group a fertile ground for their recruiting efforts. Don't want it, but I understand it. There is a base need for security in human nature. As an individual constantly on the lookout, I suppose the gang 'family' provides that.

They use national "pride" as a big recruitment tool. "Brown Pride" tattoos and Graffiti everywhere. These people come to this country not to become part of the "American Dream" but to take all they can send it home and stay what ever nationality they are. Now if you want to claim it then stay there and fix it dont come here and bring us your problems.

Also: you said the 9/11 guys lived in Podunk. Sure, but they struck in NYC...

This time. I have a feeling the next time will be smaller towns and involve churches or schools.

And as I said, cheap food is the base concern for the population. Always has been, always will.
That puts farmers on the very bottom rung of any pay scale. Always.

To put the money into a farm the way they deserve it by ways of actual cost and labor, you look at a 3$/lbs Turkey, not the 99 cents you can score from the big guys.

Farmers have put themselves at the bottom by selling out to large super farms which allow them to lower the prices and that puts small family owned farms out of bussiness when they cant compete.