Az. Gov And Immigration

[Wo Fat]

Of course ... "the right way" is simply a matter of whatever the law says.

If our U.S. legislature implemented a friendly wet-foot-dry-foot policy as it relates to Mexico and Central America, would it still be "the right way"?

 

[geezer]

Boy, there's a lot of mis-information being bandied about here, some of it by folks that are usually pretty much right on the mark. From what I'm hearing, I suspect that the national news media have not been giving very thorough and accurate coverage of this story ...more likely misleading and sensationalized summaries. Well, nothing new about that.

Anyway, this is still a pretty new development here. Our outspoken Gov. Brewer has stated that the young people (foreign born who were brought here illegally by their parents) who apply for and receive federal "deferred status" and temporarily receive legal residency and work visas under President Obama's recent executive order, will not be allowed to apply for and get driver's licenses, or any other Arizona state benefit previously available to others with the same "deferred" status granted for other reasons.

Her reasoning behind denying these benefits and services to this particular group is that she doesn't recognize the President's use of an executive order as legal and binding. Her spokesman referred to the executive order as "illegal". On the other hand, immigrant advocacy groups insist that it is the Governor's actions that are blatantly illegal and an attempt to pander to the most extreme elements of the anti-immigrant crowd in this election year. Naturally, they promise to take the matter to the courts if she doesn't back down.

As always, Arizona politics remain entertaining to say the least. I'll keep you guys posted. :erg:

 

[James Kovacich]

Yeah, that's always been something that's been confusing to me. If you're here illegally, yes, you're illegal. OTOH, IMHO, if your parents are here illegally, and they have you here, how can you be a citizen? Yeah, I know, you were born here, but I still can't wrap my head around that, and frankly, I don't think it makes sense. IMO, you're illegal too.

As for the rest of your post....yes, I agree.

Anyone born here is a US Citizen. As far as I know its been that way all along.

Funny thing, my 4 grandparents came here at the turn of the 20th century. 2 came from Croatia and 2 came from Spain. I've been researching our families histories for about a decade and I haven't found any evidence that grandparents ever became citizens. My great uncles became citizens but nothing so far for my grandparents. Im sure they did. I know some of my family was in Hawaii and I think it was 1917 or around there they made everyone citizens in an attempt to do a US census.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

 

[Cryozombie]

The one thing that has me really confused: Can someone explain to me how anyone who arrived before their 31st Birthday is considered a child brought here by their parents?

 

[Wo Fat]

Our outspoken Gov. Brewer has stated that the young people (foreign born who were brought here illegally by their parents) who apply for and receive federal "deferred status" and temporarily receive legal residency and work visas under President Obama's recent executive order, will not be allowed to apply for and get driver's licenses, or any other Arizona state benefitpreviously available to others with the same "deferred" status granted for other reasons.

Her reasoning behind denying these benefits and services to this particular group is that she doesn't recognize the President's use of an executive order as legal and binding. Her spokesman referred to the executive order as "illegal". On the other hand, immigrant advocacy groups insist that it is the Governor's actions that are blatantly illegal and an attempt to pander to the most extreme elements of the anti-immigrant crowd in this election year. Naturally, they promise to take the matter to the courts if she doesn't back down.

Gov. Brewer reminds me more and more of governors like Lester Maddox or Orval Faubus or George Wallace. The issues and the actions they took aren't exactly the same, but the sentiment seems to be. Maddox, Faubus and Wallace all pandered to people whose views were extreme, un-American, or even contrary to federal law ... all under the guise of "states rights". I can't say whether Brewer is violating any law or federal directive, but I can see that she has no intent of honoring the spirit of it.

As was the case with those Southern governors, maybe it's time the federal government weighed in on the issue of a "national" driver's license. That might solve a lot of problems. Might create some, too, but these obstructionist governors need to be put in check.

 

[ballen0351]

Gov. Brewer reminds me more and more of governors like Lester Maddox or Orval Faubus or George Wallace. The issues and the actio:ns they took aren't exactly the same, but the sentiment seems to be. Maddox, Faubus and Wallace all pandered to people whose views were extreme, un-American, or even contrary to federal law ... all under the guise of "states rights". I can't say whether Brewer is violating any law or federal directive, but I can see that she has no intent of honoring the spirit of it.

As was the case with those Southern governors, maybe it's time the federal government weighed in on the issue of a "national" driver's license. That might solve a lot of problems. Might create some, too, but these obstructionist governors need to be put in check.

Or if you don't like it don't go to AZ. The last thing we need is a federal drivers license

 

[Big Don]

Gov. Brewer reminds me more and more of governors like Lester Maddox or Orval Faubus or George Wallace. The issues and the actions they took aren't exactly the same, but the sentiment seems to be. Maddox, Faubus and Wallace all pandered to people whose views were extreme, un-American, or even contrary to federal law ... all under the guise of "states rights". I can't say whether Brewer is violating any law or federal directive, but I can see that she has no intent of honoring the spirit of it.

As was the case with those Southern governors, maybe it's time the federal government weighed in on the issue of a "national" driver's license. That might solve a lot of problems. Might create some, too, but these obstructionist governors need to be put in check.

Yeah, because race based segregation is the same as demanding the federal government deal with illegal aliens...

 

[Wo Fat]

Big Don, when I said:

The issues and the actions they took aren't exactly the same

I was saying the same thing you're saying. Perhaps I should have spelled it out a little more.

So, again ...

Not the same thing. Not related to ..., etc.

 

[Wo Fat]

Or if you don't like it don't go to AZ.

... which ends up being a de facto endorsement of exclusionary policy.

The last thing we need is a federal drivers license

Again, it wouldn't be without its problems. But at least it wouldn't be left up to obstructionist, pandering governors to exclude people from a privilege that the federal government says to include.

If the fed said that 9mm pistols were legal to own, but Gov. Jerry Brown of California said "no", do we just let California have its way?

 

[ballen0351]

... which ends up being a de facto endorsement of exclusionary policy.



Again, it wouldn't be without its problems. But at least it wouldn't be left up to obstructionist, pandering governors to exclude people from a privilege that the federal government says to include.

If the fed said that 9mm pistols were legal to own, but Gov. Jerry Brown of California said "no", do we just let California have its way?

In my opinion yes. I believe states are free to run its state however it wants. California already bans many guns that are legal in other states.

 

[Big Don]

If the fed said that 9mm pistols were legal to own, but Gov. Jerry Brown of California said "no", do we just let California have its way?

Lots of things are illegal in CA that are legal in other states, .50 caliber rifles (which have never been used in any crime) just to name one...
If federal law says marijuana is illegal, for any use, can states "legalize" "medical marijuana"?

 

[Big Don]

... which ends up being a de facto endorsement of exclusionary policy.

I'm sure if all the illegals currently in Arizona left, and no new illegals came to replace them, the people of Arizona would be fine with that

 

[aedrasteia]

I'm sure if all the illegals currently in Arizona left, and no new illegals came to replace them, the people of Arizona would be fine with that

maybe, maybe not. 'nother POV

Tom Russell lives near the border (Texas, not Az):

or this version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIQeG8izfBc&feature=related

 

[geezer]

I'm sure if all the illegals currently in Arizona left, and no new illegals came to replace them, the people of Arizona would be fine with that

Actually a lot of us Arizonans, including a lot of conservative Republican businessmen, would regret it if that happened "for reals". The local economy would take a huge hit. Like most border states, Arizona has always benefited from a limited number of illegals, in agricultural work, hard manual labor and the service industries, especially hotels and restaurants. That's why for decades folks here in the Sunbelt border states treated illegal immigration as no big deal ...until things started to get out of control in the '90s. Too many illegals came in, wages fell, resources got stretched thin, then the politicians started pumping the issue for their own benefit. You know... posturing, finger pointing, scape-goating, playing on peoples fears, trying to ride the wave of hysteria to certain re-election, without ever solving the problem.

Personally, I'd like to see some real, long-term immigration reform that both controls the borders and gives illegals a realistic path to earn legal status. That's why I support the "Dream Act" in principle. As a high school teacher in a school with a large number of Latinos, I see these kids every day. I never know exactly who is legal and who isn't, and I don't ask. But often even the legal kids, mostly citizens born here have a sibling, parent, or close relative who is not legal. And there is no way these folks can legalize their status.

Rather than see families ripped apart or hiding in fear, I'd like to see a real path by which illegals could do "what's right" and earn a legal status. Everybody keeps saying that they have "no objection to people coming here legally." So why are they against any reform that might make it possible for folks to legalize their status? After all, that's what the "Dream Act" is an attempt to do.

 

[Big Don]

During the 08 primary season McCain said he'd pay anyone $50 an hour to pick lettuce for the season, I emailed his office a number of times to take him up on that, but, got no response.
Would food become more expensive? Probably. Would that be better than paying for all the emergency room trips, etc that illegals use, damn straight, and a lot cheaper in the long run.

 

[Cryozombie]

Actually a lot of us Arizonans, including a lot of conservative Republican businessmen, would regret it if that happened "for reals". The local economy would take a huge hit. Like most border states, Arizona has always benefited from a limited number of illegals, in agricultural work, hard manual labor and the service industries, especially hotels and restaurants.

I have a problem with this because it encourages us to look the other way twords illegals in exchange for paying slave-wage for labor in violation of our labor laws... everyone who seems to support illegal immigration cites this cheap labor helping to keep costs of Lettuce down, I say it's unfair to the workers, if they are legal or not.

Everybody keeps saying that they have "no objection to people coming here legally." So why are they against any reform that might make it possible for folks to legalize their status? After all, that's what the "Dream Act" is an attempt to do.

I actually support reform and making it easier and more affordable to earn citizenship... My only issue with this particular act, which I asked about above but no one would answer for me, is how do you justify calling anyone who came here under 31 years old a child? 18 I can see. 31? No ****ing way... its a sham.

 

[Wo Fat]

Everybody keeps saying that they have "no objection to people coming here legally." So why are they against any reform that might make it possible for folks to legalize their status?

It is an obvious dichotomy, isn't it.

 

[geezer]

I actually support reform and making it easier and more affordable to earn citizenship... My only issue with this particular act, which I asked about above but no one would answer for me, is how do you justify calling anyone who came here under 31 years old a child? 18 I can see. 31? No ****ing way... its a sham.

C'mon, Cryo ...you know how to do a simple Google search. Get your facts straight. While there are several different versions of the "Dream Act" being debated, the temporary "deferred action" established by the president's executive order specifies that the applicant be under the age of 16 when originally brought to this country, and still under the age of 30 as of June 15, 2012 (or still under 31 today) to apply.

In other words, we are talking about people brought here as kids who have grown up as "de-facto Americans". This is the only country they know, and in many cases, English is the only language they speak proficiently.But, obviously, if they've grown up here ...some are "grown-ups" (i.e. young adults) now!


Here's one of a zillion FAQs on the web you might check: http://www.nilc.org/FAQdeferredactionyouth.html

 

[geezer]

Oh, just one more interesting note relating back to the OP. Our local paper, The Arizona Republic --generally considered to be "sensibly conservative"-- weighed in on our governor's statements today on their editorial page. They slammed her for going way too far, coloring her remarks as being spiteful and inconsistent with both the law and previous policies regarding immigrants with the same "deferred status" (granted under other conditions). Check it out for yourselves:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...nor-jan-brewers-deferred-status-defiance.html

 

[ballen0351]

It is an obvious dichotomy, isn't it.

Because they broke the law to get here its not fair to all the millions of people that did cone here legally. Reform the law for everyone in the future send the law breakers back and make them reapply the legal way and close the borders to make it harder for more illegals to enter