Any stance should work... with training

[Xue Sheng]

Can anyone else elaborate on how their training and the actuality matched up?

After many years in security and some of that in hospitals (emergency rooms) and one with a Mental Health and Detox Unit I sadly can say yes I can.

Since all confrontations were either in Uniform or in a sport coat it was noting like how I was training at the time but I was surprised at how much of my taiji rooting, absorb and redirect worked and that was followed by Qinna or just me simply holding the person down until they calmed down. But then most confrontations were avoided by Wordfu (happily). I can only remember one time where I ever took any type of stance and that was more to slow the person down (Bleeding Heroin addict) because I did not want to touch them to be honest. And it did stop them long enough (they were charging at me) and make them think (surprisingly) and stop and revert to screaming insults at me, which I much preferred. Later however it got nasty but at least I have gloves on by then and that is where the rooting and redirection of force came in very handy.

In that situation Taiji works much better than say Xingyiquan only because Xingyi tends to be very aggressive and is MUCH more likely to get you sued. But then I had not trained much Xingyi t that time. I did recently find out while working with some Wing Chun people that almost all of my defense is form Taiji and the majority of my attacks are Xingyiquan. Although as of today I am not sure if my responses to attack were not to some extent Sanda.

 

[kidswarrior]

I did recently find out while working with some Wing Chun people that almost all of my defense is form Taiji and the majority of my attacks are Xingyiquan. Although as of today I am not sure if my responses to attack were not to some extent Sanda.

Nice to know someone else finds mix-and-match with styles to be effective. Maybe this is how stances really do work--across disciplines, calling on whatever training we've had. As Skn said, the stance is not separate from the technique. This is underscored by the anecdote you gave, X S, on the woman walking home who--through the whole attack--never got into a *stance*. Still, her stance training obviously gave her whatever platform she needed to launch her very effective counterattack. What else can we ask a stance to do?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Whatever you’re given styles main fighting stance is. Sorry I am using XS terminology and it is not universal and I sometimes forget that.

Basically it is good to train whatever your styles main fighting stance is but the chances of you being in it when attacked are highly unlikely and when you feel threatened to get into it immediately may just escalate things further and faster than they would have gone if you had not.

Not so sure I agree. Some ready stances are more subtle than others.
Sean

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not so sure I agree. Some ready stances are more subtle than others.
Sean

Actually some styles have have none.... officially, they use natural ways of standing to train.

But if the stance is subtle is it better to train it or ignore training it?

If you are attacked will you be in it?

If you are not in it will training it have helped you defend yourself even though you are not in it?

Police/Military Sanda actually has no official stance. But if you train Tuishou you are still training a stance. You are learning how to root and how to direct force and power (and it sure as hell strengthens the legs – but I try to avoid mentioning the leg strength part since it invariably brings about the “I know a lot of ways to strengthen legs without stances” comment). But if you think of the applications of and who generally is trained Police Military Sanda it is kind of silly to think that you will ever be given the chance to take a stance. But because you trained properly you gain a lot from it, and in this case it is Tuishou. Which admittedly is extremely different than stance training in Xingyiquan.

Taiji and Bagua also train stances but generally by performing a form. Except in the case of Chen style that does, depending on the teacher, train stances as stationary postures.

 

[Tames D]

Actually some styles have have none.... officially, they use natural ways of standing to train.

But if the stance is subtle is it better to train it or ignore training it?

If you are attacked will you be in it?

If you are not in it will training it have helped you defend yourself even though you are not in it?

Police/Military Sanda actually has no official stance. But if you train Tuishou you are still training a stance. You are learning how to root and how to direct force and power (and it sure as hell strengthens the legs – but I try to avoid mentioning the leg strength part since it invariably brings about the “I know a lot of ways to strengthen legs without stances” comment). But if you think of the applications of and who generally is trained Police Military Sanda it is kind of silly to think that you will ever be given the chance to take a stance. But because you trained properly you gain a lot from it, and in this case it is Tuishou. Which admittedly is extremely different than stance training in Xingyiquan.

Taiji and Bagua also train stances but generally by performing a form. Except in the case of Chen style that does, depending on the teacher, train stances as stationary postures.

Absolutely!

 

[gilgsn]

In systema, we have no stance.. A stance assumes that you know someone is attacking you, and that most likely, you are attacked by one opponent. Most real life situations will be much different than an 'agreed-upon' fight. It can limit your mobility, and signal your opponent that you are ready and trained, which may make him more agressive or even pull out a weapon.. I think that indeed keeping a good form is more important. If there is trouble in the air, you can raise your arms in a non-agressive manner (scratch your head maybe..), and start breathing to relax and get some more oxygen in your blood.. We are used to move from a regular standing position, not a weird, unnatural one. When the stuff hits the fan, we'll revert to what's more natural. So, we might as well train from there..

 

[bowser666]

From my experience there are attacking/blocking stances, and also transitional stances. The former usual provide a stable root to either repel or strike from while the latter allows you to move in between stances. No one stance is perfect. Just be aware and block, it wont matter if you are rooted or not. Hands up and blocking is better than a good defensive stance after you get hit once. IMO

 

[Xue Sheng]

In systema, we have no stance.. A stance assumes that you know someone is attacking you, and that most likely, you are attacked by one opponent. Most real life situations will be much different than an 'agreed-upon' fight. It can limit your mobility, and signal your opponent that you are ready and trained, which may make him more agressive or even pull out a weapon.. I think that indeed keeping a good form is more important. If there is trouble in the air, you can raise your arms in a non-agressive manner (scratch your head maybe..), and start breathing to relax and get some more oxygen in your blood.. We are used to move from a regular standing position, not a weird, unnatural one. When the stuff hits the fan, we'll revert to what's more natural. So, we might as well train from there..

I've been waiting for a Systema person to answer and I agree.

Interestingly enough the stance my Xingyiquan Sifu always recommended was to raise your arms in a non-aggressive manner. Form there he said he can go into any Xingyiquan defense/attack he needed to. And Xingyi is VERY big on training stances. But the stance is a root to use not something to jump into at the first sign of a problem.

 

[kidswarrior]

Interestingly enough the stance my Xingyiquan Sifu always recommended was to raise your arms in a non-aggressive manner. Form there he said he can go into any Xingyiquan defense/attack he needed to.

This reminds me of The Fence made famous by Geoff Thompson (but maybe he got it from Xingyi :mst. I use it/teach it for those situations in which you might have time to actually get into a stance. And have found it works exactly as your instructor says.

And Xingyi is VERY big on training stances. But the stance is a root to use not something to jump into at the first sign of a problem.

Exactly! :asian: