All that is black belt is not truth

[Amatsu Tatara]

In my 40 years in the martial arts I have met many black belts that were good fighters and bad instructors and many that were great instructors and poor fighters, they knew thier principles.
Several times I ran into a particular Sensei who had developed several good solid schools yet claimed to be able to deliver dozens of strikes in one second. So years pass and I move across several states to settle in the Pacific Northwest, I'm alone without a school, student or fellow instructor. Wow there in the phone book is a listing for-----------(the listing is omitted to protect the faker). Great I dial up and am told the instructors name, E-gad it's him, Mr. 12 strikes per second. Now I am informed that he is a black belt in 16 styles. I hang up.
Question;
How can someone with real certifications with real Sensei and a real ability to produce good if not great students and schools be so full of it.

 

[Blindside]

In my 40 years in the martial arts I have met many black belts that were good fighters and bad instructors and many that were great instructors and poor fighters, they knew thier principles.
Several times I ran into a particular Sensei who had developed several good solid schools yet claimed to be able to deliver dozens of strikes in one second. So years pass and I move across several states to settle in the Pacific Northwest, I'm alone without a school, student or fellow instructor. Wow there in the phone book is a listing for-----------(the listing is omitted to protect the faker). Great I dial up and am told the instructors name, E-gad it's him, Mr. 12 strikes per second. Now I am informed that he is a black belt in 16 styles. I hang up.
Question;
How can someone with real certifications with real Sensei and a real ability to produce good if not great students and schools be so full of it.

I'm pretty certain the guy you are talking about posts on KenpoTalk, maybe you could try posting this there and bringing up the subject in a forum where he could respond.

Lamont

 

[theletch1]

Because so many people in the states buy into the eastern mysticism of the martial arts world and believe that having a black belt equals being some sort of magical being. Also, when folks are first introduced to the martial arts they don't know good from bad from horrible. All it takes is a modicum of skill, a narcisitic attitude, a little charisma and some papers with lots of kanji on them and the uniformed will follow. Hopefully, those that follow will catch on sooner or later and leave for greener pastures. What you're describing is, unfortunately, not that uncommon. Heck, my first instructor was one for the "Horror stories" forum here. I caught on, looked elsewhere and found both the art and instructor that suit me perfectly. Don't become disheartened with the martial arts or artists in general. Just find some folks in your area to train with and know that you are following the path that suits you best.

 

[exile]

But wait, this actually is a somewhat unusual situation. What we have here, according to what the OP describes, is not a standard faker, but someone who is a very competent trainer of MAists, but who inflates his own reputation by making outrageous claims that you'd think no legitimate expert and successful teacher should need to make. Very strange, I have to say!

I'm afraid I can't answer your question, though I've heard of one or two similar cases. When I hear of such things, I always start from the assumption that instead of being a calculating, cynical charlatan, the instructor in question has... well, has developed a cracked bearing somewhere and lost touch with reality to some extent. In other words, there may be a serious personality problem here rather than an effort to deliberately deceive. But it's hard to say...

MartialTalk has a policy of discouraging `fraudbusting', as you'll have noticed when you read the original Terms of Service, so pursuing this matter more specifically here is definitely not a good idea. But at a more general level, the question `How can it be that a good, competent instructor behaves like a deliberate con artist?' is one that I have no answer for, except the one I mentioned—that you may be looking at some kind of genuine pathology here...

 

[Monadnock]

Never underestimate the power of the almighty dollar.

Even if he is as good as you say, he may have no other way to attract students than to put silly ads in the Yellow Book. Also, think about how many true 'seekers" there are out there vs. the number of people who just want to go out and try the next cool activity. Chances are he's aiming for the latter to fill the wallet quicker.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I suspect it's the result of a sort of vicious cycle.

You become an instructor. Your students take everything you say as gospel truth. You start to believe your own press. You start making ever increasing claims as to your ability, experience, prowess. Your students take everything you say as gospel truth. You start to believe even that press...and on and on.

On another note, whereabouts in Oregon are ya? We have a great bunch of guys training together out here in Hillsboro. If that's far, it's likely we can help you find a good program near you.

 

[jks9199]

In my 40 years in the martial arts I have met many black belts that were good fighters and bad instructors and many that were great instructors and poor fighters, they knew thier principles.
Several times I ran into a particular Sensei who had developed several good solid schools yet claimed to be able to deliver dozens of strikes in one second. So years pass and I move across several states to settle in the Pacific Northwest, I'm alone without a school, student or fellow instructor. Wow there in the phone book is a listing for-----------(the listing is omitted to protect the faker). Great I dial up and am told the instructors name, E-gad it's him, Mr. 12 strikes per second. Now I am informed that he is a black belt in 16 styles. I hang up.
Question;
How can someone with real certifications with real Sensei and a real ability to produce good if not great students and schools be so full of it.

$$$$$$$
That's why...

And that's why I don't ever see myself teaching commercially.

 

[shesulsa]

Admin note:

Thread moved to General Martial Arts Talk. Please start threads in a section you think they would fit according to the forum title and description.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assist. Administrator

 

[Ninjamom]

.....
How can someone with real certifications ...... and a real ability ........... be so full of it.

Because ability, training, and education are not necessarily the same as CHARACTER.

 

[Carol]

Because ability, training, and education are not necessarily the same as CHARACTER.

Amen to that, Ninjamom :asian:

 

[thetruth]

It's not the guy who advertised in bb mag as the speedman is it??


Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[Christina05]

$$$$$$$
That's why...

And that's why I don't ever see myself teaching commercially.

Ditto. And its so sad when people buy into that kind of stuff.

 

[Tez3]

$$$$$$$
That's why...

And that's why I don't ever see myself teaching commercially.

If you teach commercially and try to teach ethically, keeping costs down etc you will run at a loss trust me! We run 'commerical' classes but frankly it barely covers costs like travelling costs, cleaning materials etc. We have to rely on the MMA shows to make a living.
We could of course have contracts and all that stuff but prefer not to. Means we get pushed out of the market though by the type of club described here. We'll teach you to fight but it won't be the fancy 12 strikes a minute thing.

 

[Cirdan]

Hard work, sweat and pain don`t sell.
Sensationalism, quick black belts and mysticism does.

The roles of Martial arts instructor and salesman don`t mix.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

But wait, this actually is a somewhat unusual situation. What we have here, according to what the OP describes, is not a standard faker, but someone who is a very competent trainer of MAists, but who inflates his own reputation by making outrageous claims that you'd think no legitimate expert and successful teacher should need to make. Very strange, I have to say!

I'm afraid I can't answer your question, though I've heard of one or two similar cases. When I hear of such things, I always start from the assumption that instead of being a calculating, cynical charlatan, the instructor in question has... well, has developed a cracked bearing somewhere and lost touch with reality to some extent. In other words, there may be a serious personality problem here rather than an effort to deliberately deceive. But it's hard to say...

MartialTalk has a policy of discouraging `fraudbusting', as you'll have noticed when you read the original Terms of Service, so pursuing this matter more specifically here is definitely not a good idea. But at a more general level, the question `How can it be that a good, competent instructor behaves like a deliberate con artist?' is one that I have no answer for, except the one I mentioned—that you may be looking at some kind of genuine pathology here...

I have to say that I like the way Exile worded this.

 

[Tez3]

Hard work, sweat and pain don`t sell.
Sensationalism, quick black belts and mysticism does.

The roles of Martial arts instructor and salesman don`t mix.

That is heart breakingly true.

 

[qi-tah]

If you teach commercially and try to teach ethically, keeping costs down etc you will run at a loss trust me! We run 'commerical' classes but frankly it barely covers costs like travelling costs, cleaning materials etc. We have to rely on the MMA shows to make a living.
We could of course have contracts and all that stuff but prefer not to. Means we get pushed out of the market though by the type of club described here. We'll teach you to fight but it won't be the fancy 12 strikes a minute thing.

*gasp* is that... humanly possible??

 

[Em MacIntosh]

If you can move that fast, why would you need more than one strike. I've heard of a wing chun practitioner who could do 8 punches per second (supposedly full force). Needless to say I was sceptical of that. Let alone twelve...

 

[Tez3]

When we are teaching the kids my instructor will stand there and say to the kids, 'did you see that move?' the kids will go 'wow no'. "See" says my instructor " I was so fast you couldn't even see me move". The kids ponder a minute then start laughing because they know they've been had. If kids can work out it's a joke why can't the adults see it's not real?

 

[Em MacIntosh]

"Wanna see how fast I can kick? Wanna see it again?", LOL. I guess it's universal. Would be nice to move that fast though. Jacki Chan's so fast he'll spin you around, run out to the parking lot and get a tire iron out of the car and hit you over the head with it. Too bad someone turned himself into a joke. All that training...apperently he's a competent MAist who thinks he has the "super kung-fu". Hafta wonder about that sanity question.