Hardening the Hands

[Em MacIntosh]

I've heard lots of opinions on why I should or shouldn't harden my hands on makiwara, iron palm training, fire gong etc. Breaking too. Arthritis and all that good stuff. So here we are. Rather than relate any personal stories I'd like to hear from you guys. Opinions, accidents, stories, reccomendations, techniques and the like. Lets all absorb and bask in the information of the experts and those on their way. I thank you all in advance.

 

[tradrockrat]

when I was young and invincible, I used to work out on the heavy bag in just wraps - more real, you know? I used to hit harder targets as well like the boards.

Now every time I make a fist all my knuckles crack a-la Bruce Lee movies. Not Good. That's gonna hurt later.

 

[mrhnau]

I seem to recall seeing a show where this chinese guy hardened his hands by punching iron repeatedly. They said he could pretty much knock anyone out with a single punch. while that is nice, the guys hands were SO disfigured and painful just to look at! I'd hate to have those hands, especially later in life.

Realistically, you won't be using your hands in violence too much, unless you are fighting frequently. Even so, you are likely wearing some form of padding. Sufficient hardening is probably going to happen during training (bag work, repeated striking w/ gloves, etc), so I'd not be particularily concerned about extra hand hardening, but that's just me For most people that don't fight for fun/living, they won't need super-duper hard hands for a normal street/bar encounter.

 

[MartialArtHeart]

If you do plan on doing it, make sure you get a good quality dit-da-jow for your hands to help prevent injury. I myself am also considering iron palm training. I love to break things with my hands... being able to break a black board with a vertical punch is just plain fun. But just make sure to take the proper precautions... and it should be fine.
Go to http://shenmartialarts.com/ for more info. You can order dit-da-jow and training materials there, too.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Definitely a matter of personal preference. When I first started posting on here I was all about breaking, maki wara and doing my own home made "iron palm" training. Someone mentioned something about needing my hands to tie my little girl's shoe laces some day. That hit home. Now I'm trying to tear a piece of paper in mid-air with a strike. Betcha when I can do that I'll be fast! I've come to the conclusion that I don't need my hands any harder than the are at the moment. In retrospect, I think the best is naked hands on a canvas bag. Having no wrist wraps also teaches you to pay more attention and learn how hard you can hit without bending the wrist. I have cement-mixer wrists but my mobility is coming back into my hands. I'm gonna take it easy on that stuff for now but I'm still extremely interested. Another point is that I'm not imperial guard or anything.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I have a great dit-da-jow. Doesn't smell too bad either.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Has anyone studied fire-gong?

 

[Grenadier]

Some conditioning on the heavy bag or the makiwari isn't going to be detrimental. If anything, using it as feedback to see if you are punching with good mechanics can be helpful.

This results in your knuckles getting calcified, which makes them harder, but there comes a point where too much isn't good for you.

Unfortunately, some people go too far in such training, and end up destroying the nerves in the hands. Once this happens, everyday tasks can become difficult. Masutatsu Oyama, for example, was well-known for his toughness, and that his knuckles were capable of withstanding blows from a metal hammer.

However, people who knew him personally, will tell you that Oyama's hands would shake uncontrollably due to the accumulation of damages.

If you do engage in toughening excercises, make darn sure you take care of your hands, before and after. Don't overdo it. If you notice that your hands start trembling when you hold a cup of coffee, then stop right away.

 

[tellner]

The problem with a lot of these injuries is that they don't show up until years later. Ointments are part of the process, but only part. There's a whole training regimen if you want to develop conditioned hands that are still useful in modern life. And you need to make sure of what's in the jow and how it's supposed to be used. Some are for occasional use only. Others contain things like vinegar which may be alright for the skin but are bad for bones.

In TMA there's a few useful examples. Western Javanese systems like Cimande do serious conditioning that absolutely increases bone density. It can be proved on X-rays. They don't do it on their fists. They condition the forearms and shins. Shin kicks, elbows and forearms are the big guns of the system, and they really can break your arm or skull with a forearm smash. Of course, these people are mostly farmers. If your hands don't work you can't farm. If you can't farm your family starves.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

All hail the mighty forearm smash! I think it carries the most power out of all the arm techniques, save some elbows. Even harder than a palm heel. I'd be scared to think what would happen with conditioned forearms. Makes it sough to block an attack with that much force.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

*tough

 

[bluemtn]

I don't think simply hitting a heavy bag or makiwara on occasion for training purposes will do that much damage. What does, is repeatedly striking to deaden the nerves, etc. I've known people that said that they had so much problems after such exercises, over a period of time. They had huge, ugly knuckles, and said that it was getting painful to make a fist. Sometimes, they couldn't even punch a bag anymore.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I still remain fascinated by fire gong though. I'm gonna ask this in the CMA area.