Age of a Master

[FasterthanDeath]

smiling, I love to do that!!! Yeah thats what I do when they say that. Its just one of those things you know. No matter what someone is going to challenge anything or everything that I do. So thats what I do. I smile and say, your opinon is your opinon and thats what makes this country great!

 

[Dronak]

I would probably think strange of anyone referring to themselves as master or grandmaster. If its from someone else I can accept it better, but from yourself, its kind of off track.

FWIW, I don't think our teacher ever called himself master. I believe that it was the initial group of students who organized the club and chose him as the teacher that called him master and got the rest of us to do the same. But I think you're right. It does seem a bit odd for someone in the MA world to call himself/herself a master or grandmaster.

 

[Flatlander]

Managers and supervisors at other jobs are challenged, cops are challenged, teachers and principals are challenged, parents, doctors (smile), you name it.

QUOTE]

I'm challenged too, but I'm trying to work through it.

 

[arnisandyz]

“I embarrassed them because I knew what I was doing. I dont look for respect on how much I know. Just what I know....I do know just as much as they do. And I can prove it. But still, after I get done telling you, showing you, and even impressing you it just comes back to my age....probably to the day I die their will be people who will laugh and joke and doubt me, but that wasnt the problem, it was the fact that when they learned one piece of data that doesnt effect the other, I went to being nothing.


Its hard getting a read on you FasterthanDeath, but it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder or feel that you need to prove something? Its fairly obvious that you have high regard for your skill and want others to as well? As sincere as you try and make it sound, it doesn't. Maybe its not the age, but the attitude.

 

[Rick Wade]

I have found this thread very interesting and I hope I don't tick anyone off here. I will let you know from my personal experience. I am a 1st degree in American Kenpo, I tested for 2nd degree and failed yes that’s right I FAILED (hey not so loud) any way. I have been involved in Kenpo for 14 years now and ever since I failed I have sat back and taken look at ranks and rank structures. I have seen Nidans that couldn't hold a candle to an American Kenpo greenbelt and I know I am better than allot of them. My goal in Kenpo is to LEARN. Now I know from my experience I am at a stage in my Kenpo journey that I have to learn from teaching. I am still a student and will always be one. I will never again ask for a promotion test I will wait until it is offered to me. When someone out there thinks that I am ready that’s when I will be ready. As far as ranks and titles let your skills (attitude and demeanor) determine your title. I have had several people come up to me and ask why aren’t you a Nidan? I just reply when I am ready I will be ready. Now on a personal note in my loftiest of dreams I personally would like to be a 5th (Godan) someday and open a School in about 5 years. I will open a school but 5th degree is reaching I think.

Respectfully

 

[Michael Billings]

Excellent attitude Mr. English, and I am sure you will continue your journey with that philosophy. Just keep working on "mastering" yourself. That is the secret ... as if it were one.

-Michael

 

[Captain Harlock]

Maturity is not just a matter of how old one is, or even how good one gets in the arts. One may not be mature mentally simply because he or she has aged in calendar years. Maturing in the martial arts takes patience, time and training . Just knowing techniques does not automatically qualify anyone for anything, certainly not rank. The Idea is to be totally ready before testing. It takes more than just knowing forms, self-defense and other moves to be qualified for rank.

It also takes more than threats, bravado and internet bragging.

FTD - we do not care what your race is, gender is, political affiliation is, sexual leanings, religious practices are. What is bothering many here is that chip that appears to be on your shoulder, and the seeming need you have to validate your time in. The challenges also aren't helping you any.

You are getting flak because some of these individuals have been actively training for longer than you have been breathing.

Your own words have proven that you have missed an essential part of the true spirit of martial arts training.

Spend some time in meditation, and then reread your words here and decide if that is truely the way you wish to present yourself. In fact, many others should as well.

Mastery comes with experience. Wisdom comes from experience. All things come from experience. Experience comes from time. Once can not be experienced in their youth. As was said, a 10year old black belt is rather laughable, but then again so is the fixation on belts, ranks and trophies. I once knew a man who taught a Chinese art. His students would call him "master". His usual responce was "I am but a student like you, only farther along on the journey. If you must call me something, 'teacher' will do. Please do not call me 'master', for it will be many decades before I will have earned it".

I too have trained for many years, however I am but a humble student. I have had many teachers. My master however walks in a place I am not yet ready to follow. Until then, I train, I teach and I share.

 

[Flatlander]

Well, that about wraps up that topic. Do we all agree? I don't think it really needs to be articulated any other way.

Good post Captain.:asian:

 

[arnisandyz]

Well, that about wraps up that topic. Do we all agree? I don't think it really needs to be articulated any other way.

Good post Captain.:asian:

Enough said! very well stated captain!

 

[Captain Harlock]

This is most interesting. I logged in today, the first time in a while, and noticed someone had "dinged"?? me for my post above, but left no comment as to why they disagreed. Pity. For I would have liked to know the reason for the disagreement.

 

[The Prof]

Respectful Greetings Sifu,

There is a simple rule of thumb that I always consider. Please sir, this is not meant to be offensive, but at age 23, you have not lived long enough or experienced enough to have mastered anything in life, how can you possibly have mastered a martial art?
When you say you have studied CMA all your life, that simply cannot be a true statement. You could not have studied as an infant or toddler. Even if you started to study at age four or five those are years that just give you time not real experience simply because a child cannot gain true wisdom, but only scratch the surface. At your age, enjoy your youth and your ability to teach. Sifu is a really a very honorable title.
:asian:
Prof. Rick Riccardi
www.niseido.org

 

[phlaw]

I know when I started TKD the way it was explained to me was that for every rand of black belt that was the number of years you had to wait to be able to test.

So 1st degree at 15 2nd degree at 17 3rd degree at 20 etc..

So if my math is correct the youngest you could be in that system and be a MAster (4th degree) would be 24 and the youngest Grand Master (8th degree) would be 50.

Now this was before alot of instructors starting giving junior blackbelts their adult rankings when they were old enough.

example, 1 3rd degree junior blackbelt automatically becomes a 3rd degree adult black belt when he turns 16 or so (which I don't agree with)

 

[phlaw]

I should also say, I realize there are some other exceptions, I had a friend who did such a great job on his 2nd degree test he was double promoted to 3rd degree at 17 years old...

 

[KempoShaun]

Though it is HIGHLY rare, we seem to be forgetting that there were many "Masters" (a term I don't realy like), who were very young, 20's and 30's. Ed Parker, Sonny Gascon, Adriano Emperado, and almost ALL of the original people who came from Hawaii to the mainland to open up shop and/or start a style were Masters at a very young age. I doubt anyone would have gone up to Ed Parker or William Chow and told him them they weren't deserving of any rank they wore, or if they did, I would have liked to have seen the outcomes. If you deserve a rank, wear it, if you don't, you'll be exposed. That's how it works in the Martial Arts Community. I've been developing a new style for close to 10 years, finally began teaching it last year, and still would never dream of making myself a "Grandmaster" or 10th Degree Black Belt, but hey, that's just me, and maybe someday it'll happen, but why get so caught up in titles and ranks anyway? :asian:

 

[The Kai]

I can't speak of the others, but Mr Parker i believe did'nt wear a masters belt when i did a semiianr with him (this was in the early 80's), after 30 years of pracitice, promoting

Todd

 

[7starmantis]

You know, in my opinion....anyone who desires or actively seeks the title of master (or any title for that matter) doesn't deserve it. There is an old addage (I think its actually from the Bible) that says, "Let others praise you and not your own mouth". I think this could fall into that category. What does the title "master" do for your that the title "instructor" or "teacher" doesn't do?

7sm

 

[HammerFist]

I just find it kind of childish for other people who are in the MA to actually sterotype people and their ability. I thought we all lost that when we learn that anyone can be deadly. Or that anyone can hurt you.

I've never once thought that my training was about being deadly or having the ability to hurt someone.

I think your real question is about respect. And maybe the reason that people don't respect you is because you act like you are deadly and have the ability to hurt them. So in essence you are disrespecting them.

Respect is a tricky word. I can have respect for someone's ability but not respect them as a person. I suspect that you think because you have the ability that people should respect you as a person. Why should they respect you? Because you train hard. Because you have students? Because you do well in tournaments? Respect is a two way street. If you want to be respected you must first respect others.

And yes, you are fighting an uphill battle because of your age. So work at it. Crosstrain with these people. Really try to understand them. Don't disrespect, or humiliate them. Walk the higher road and people will respect you.

 

[KempoShaun]

I can't speak of the others, but Mr Parker i believe did'nt wear a masters belt when i did a semiianr with him (this was in the early 80's), after 30 years of pracitice, promoting

Todd

I also remember a good quote from Mr. Parker, something along the lines of "please don't call me Master, there is only One Master" (With this he would look to the sky). :asian:

 

[Danjo]

OK. 1. The reason I titled it that way is because that is how people title me. I dont want them to call me that. You misunderstood what I am trying to say. I was called one time 1 TIME master by a student of mine at a tournament. People just assume that if you are the head instructor you are the GM. 2. They say it like its a joke, very condensending like, As in OHHHH he is a master? AH! as they laugh. 3. Your telling me that I am playing both sides of the fence? Here let me clarify, When I said I know as much as they do. I meant the people who SLANDER what I teach. I do not mean the Masters. Never has a Self proclaimed or Proclaimed Master ever told me that I had no clue on what I was doing. 4. My problem was bigger than just me. I was talking about the politics and ego problems in MA. Alot of people laugh at you if you say you are a Judo practioner. Some at Ninjitsu. I find it very ironic that in a world of morality and discipline that it always goes back to I am bigger and badder than you. Thats what my problem is about. 5. How would you know if a ST kid could fight you? Ever seen one fight? A streetfight? Ever seen one lose? Being beat? I have seen all of that. In a city named Arlington there is a Temple where one of the sons of my teacher was attending for school. I have seen him win, lose and being beat by guys 2, 3 times his size. And as far as seeing my skills, you know enough to say I am a fool, so I am sure you know my skills too, or maybe that was just your immaturity showing itself.

What exactly DO you teach? What style, rank etc. Who was your teacher?

You know, in more than one religion, one is not allowed to be a teacher until the age of thirty and one is not considered an Elder until the age of 50. This of course varies, but the idea is that one doesn't even know what one doesn't know until they have been around a while. The older one gets, the more one finds that the pat answers that they held at a younger age simply do not hold up all that well. Those of us that have been around a bit longer than you remember what we thought like at the age of 23. Many graduated from college at that age. Others, got out after a tour in the military at about that age etc. You, so you tell us, have achieved some rank in an as yet undisclosed martial art. Fine. That is something that should engender in you a sense of accomplishment, but mastery is a long ways off. No offense, but there is precious little that a 23 year old can tell me, at 38, about life. I would certainly not presume to try to tell someone older than me about life either, so the term "master" seems a good deal premature. Perhaps you have some measure of expertise in a martial art (still anxious to hear what it is exactly). In that case, perhaps you are fit to teach said (or "Unsaid") martial art. Perhaps someone of 38 or older would feel comfortable going to one of your purported expertise to learn that art, but "master" conotes more to me than a mere teacher, though God knows I'm not running down teachers or instructors.

 

[Deflecting_the_Storm]

I am responding to this post if light of my friend because he is no longer posting on the website due to legal reasons from another thread, (I dont want to mention because of legal reasons as well!) But what he was trying to say was that around here where we live many people are not Realistic in their training of people. Alot of people are taught a few moves here and there and go out and sell to people self defense when it is not proven and/or not scientifically sound. Alot of people laugh at you when you try to improve things or change them, but noone wants to listen. They dont even take the time to hear them out. So now you have tons of people teaching unknown things calling it self defense and giving people False hope. Now as far as being a self-proclaimed Master, He never proclaimed himself, he was just called that once and then people began to use that against him. And I really dont think he was trying to teach you anything about life, I think he was talking about the art itself. And who knows what a young person can teach you about life, if you are not willing to listen to what they have to say you may be missing out on something that could either further your understanding of life, or it could be just babbling of a young immature boy. But how would you know if you didnt listen? You have already made up your mind about what you are going to do. Isnt that a little closed minded? He and I are both frustrated about how the politics of MA have taken over rather than just the teaching and the learning. So much that he decided to post how he felt on the forums and take his chances with everyone. Of course it didnt come out the way he wanted it too but I told him there really is not point in fighting it. People will teach what they want to teach even if its not right. By the way he has learned many MA including Kenpo, Wing Chun, San Shou, and Ju-jitsu. But he sticks with the Chinese Arts. He likes them better. I believe his Teacher's name is James Hurang(I dont know if I spelled it right!) But he learned all it all from private instruction. The man lived in Dallas, Tx and had a school in the late 70's but got out of it due to pressure from his community because he taught little children lethal techniques. Or thats what I have been told by him. I have met the man and he is very knowledgable and is very quick for being so old! So I hope this clears up what he was trying to say, I dont think he can post how he wants to say things. You just have to talk to him face to face and it sounds differently. I know he has a black belt in Kenpo but dont know through which family tree, and I know in Wing Chun, and San Shou he is a red sash and senior, In ju-jitsu he is a 2nd black belt and he does have other MA experience but you would have to ask him. Although its kind a hard, he doesnt even post on here let alone come to the site anymore. But I will ask him if you want me too. By the way I saw you in the Kenpo forum, maybe you can answer this for me, Why the dislike/seperation of the Parker/Tracy kenpo?