Kajukenbo or Shaolin Kempo Karate?

A

Aeternus

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I'm currently signed up for a Shaolin Kempo Karate class, but I have recently found out about a kajukenbo school here in Montreal. I do like my Shaolin Kempo class and I think I have a good teacher (although I have no one to compare him too). However, I've been reading up on Kajukenbo and it really interests me. I know Shaolin Kempo Karate is derived from Kajukenbo through a lineage of different masters, but I don't know how different the two are.

Does anybody who has studied both styles know the main differences between them?

My Shaolin Kempo Karate teacher is Marlon Wilson of the Tom Ingargiola system (not Fred Villari) and the Kajukenbo class is taught by Philip Gelinas. I think I will try out Kajukenbo for at least a month after my contract for Shaolin Kempo expires, but I just want to know how much will I be able to bring with me from Shaolin Kempo to Kajukenbo.
 

Matt

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Aeternus said:
I'm currently signed up for a Shaolin Kempo Karate class, but I have recently found out about a kajukenbo school here in Montreal. I do like my Shaolin Kempo class and I think I have a good teacher (although I have no one to compare him too). However, I've been reading up on Kajukenbo and it really interests me. I know Shaolin Kempo Karate is derived from Kajukenbo through a lineage of different masters, but I don't know how different the two are.

Does anybody who has studied both styles know the main differences between them?
I'm not going to be really helpful on this, but I'll try anyway. Having learned some of the kajukenbo katas and the shaolin kempo katas, I find little difference. The choreography is different, but the tools and intent are similar.

However again, there is immense variety within each system. Consider what you like. There is a much larger quantity of material in SK. Kajukenbo has a longer history. There's a larger variety in SK of material. The difference will lie in how you like the style of the instructor.


My Shaolin Kempo Karate teacher is Marlon Wilson of the Tom Ingargiola system (not Fred Villari) and the Kajukenbo class is taught by Philip Gelinas. I think I will try out Kajukenbo for at least a month after my contract for Shaolin Kempo expires, but I just want to know how much will I be able to bring with me from Shaolin Kempo to Kajukenbo.

Here's where I get less helpful. Phil Gelinas is a long time kajukenbo practitioner. He's the keeper of the family tree for Kajukenbo. I have never met him, but by all accounts I've heard, he is a competent instructor.

On the other hand, I have had the pleasure of being partnered with Marlon Wilson on our shodan test, and I feel he is a dedicated instructor and practitioner. He's put an immense amount of thought into his curriculum, and has a great love of learning. With Tom Ingargiola, Marlon has access to some great senior martial artists such as Professor Kimo Ferreira (Kempo Jutsu Kai), Motobu Chosei (son of Motobu Choki), and others. Tom himself has put his money where his mouth is in kickboxing and mma matches.

Essentially you are in a good position. The one I don't know, I've heard good things about. The one I do know, is good. The systems are very compatible; essentially Shaolin kempo is remixed and modified kajukenbo. The kajukenbocafe lists it as "extended family".

See which instructor inspires you. Those two arts are roughly equivalent, and only as good as the instructor.

Matt Barnes
 

Blindside

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Well, I'm biased, from what I have seen of Shaolin Kempo and what I studied in Kajukenbo, I would go with Kaju.

That being said, the kaju instructor is Phillip Gelinas, would that be Phillip "sled dog" Gelinas? If so, that is who I would be studying with, as a Dog brother he has gone out and tested alot of his material, you can't really say that for alot of instructors.

Good luck on your choice, it will really come down to who you feel is the better instructor and if what they do matches what you want your journey to be like.

Lamont

PS, little bio on Mr. Gelinas
http://dogbrothers.com/wrapper.php?file=bios_gelinas.htm
 

DavidCC

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You are lucky to have to make such a choice :D I study S.K. and have compared it to Kajukenbo and Karazenpo and they are very similar. and with 2 qualified and well recommended instructors, I would have to say, go with the instructor or school that fits your personality, budget and schedule.
 

GAB

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DavidCC said:
You are lucky to have to make such a choice :D I study S.K. and have compared it to Kajukenbo and Karazenpo and they are very similar. and with 2 qualified and well recommended instructors, I would have to say, go with the instructor or school that fits your personality, budget and schedule.=/QUOTE]

Hi, I am going to say, the advice from David is very good, especially regarding the Personality, Budget, and Schedule part... Very important, in respect to your own enjoyment. Everyone is an individual and each of us have our own identities.

Regards, Gary
 

kempo108

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I am a direct student of Tom Ingargiola. and I have trained with Marlon several times as well. Actually last month he was in New York. the two styles are similar, but I would pick Shaolin Kempo :wink2: . Marlon is very dedicated to the art. When I work with his students, I can tell he is a great teacher.
 
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kempo108 said:
I am a direct student of Tom Ingargiola. and I have trained with Marlon several times as well. Actually last month he was in New York. the two styles are similar, but I would pick Shaolin Kempo :wink2: . Marlon is very dedicated to the art. When I work with his students, I can tell he is a great teacher.

Professor Gelinas ('sled dog') is one of the best in the business with tons of experience and a proven and tested reputation. I have also corresponded privately and publically with Marlon many times over the years and have to agree with kempo108. All I can say is: 'Tough decision'. However, you are of the Villari lineage and system but there's nothing wrong with that. I have also corresponded with Professor Tom who has one helluva reputation as a pro kickboxer and kempo teacher who studied under Villari personally. The foundation of his art is the Shaolin Kempo Karate of Gm. Villari and that is where Tom got his identity, his foundation and it appears he must have had excellent instruction for he has done extremely well with it. Don't let others get to you due to some of the poorer quality Villari schools around because like all large expansion chains, they are 'hit or miss'. You can find an excellent school, a mediocre one or a not so good one to put it mildly to say the least and let me also say: Every large chain and 'head honcho' behind it has the same controversies and horror stories along with their successes, the bigger the chain, the more you hear-good, bad or indifferent. Again, both are great arts, tough choice-Good luck! Professor Joe Shuras
 
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Aeternus

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I'll keep all this in mind when I try a free class at Philip Gelinas' school. That probably won't be until next March (as my contract with Marlon doesn't end until then), so for the time being I should concentrate on my Shaolin Kempo. I want to learn as much as I can before I have to make a decision. Thank all of you for your advice.
 

bill007

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I'm currently signed up for a Shaolin Kempo Karate class, but I have recently found out about a kajukenbo school here in Montreal. I do like my Shaolin Kempo class and I think I have a good teacher (although I have no one to compare him too). However, I've been reading up on Kajukenbo and it really interests me. I know Shaolin Kempo Karate is derived from Kajukenbo through a lineage of different masters, but I don't know how different the two are.

Does anybody who has studied both styles know the main differences between them?

My Shaolin Kempo Karate teacher is Marlon Wilson of the Tom Ingargiola system (not Fred Villari) and the Kajukenbo class is taught by Philip Gelinas. I think I will try out Kajukenbo for at least a month after my contract for Shaolin Kempo expires, but I just want to know how much will I be able to bring with me from Shaolin Kempo to Kajukenbo.

I can't speak about Mr. Gelinas because I have never met him, but I can speak about Marlon, Marlon was one of my teacher when I lived on the west-island and he is really dedicated and don't expect half mesure with him he will push you to your limit and more... take a look at his students and you gonna have your answer, I have enjoy the little time I had in his school and he's still a friend of mine, my training bring me elsewhere for now and i'm learning different things in another federation but you can expect me to show up one day, for a little training with you.

Dominic
 

Gufbal1982

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Honestly, I say go with the instructor that fits you best. Instructors make a style worth studying, so if the instructor stinks, your opinion of the style is that it stinks. It's kind of representative of the philosophical way of logical thinking..."if this, then this." That's sometimes not the reality of the situation, but it's what we think. So, if the instructor works for you, stay with the instructor.
 

John Bishop

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Well since he was asking this question 2 1/2 years ago, he's probably made a decision by now.:wink2:
 

Matt

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Well since he was asking this question 2 1/2 years ago, he's probably made a decision by now.:wink2:

I'd certainly hope so. Especially as I saw it as a no-lose decision. I know Marlon (the SKK instructor) and he's an especially dedicated individual, and by all accounts Mr. Gelinas is outstanding, so really, it's all good.

I just hope the original poster picked something.

Matt
 

Sensei Manny

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I'm currently signed up for a Shaolin Kempo Karate class, but I have recently found out about a kajukenbo school here in Montreal. I do like my Shaolin Kempo class and I think I have a good teacher (although I have no one to compare him too). However, I've been reading up on Kajukenbo and it really interests me. I know Shaolin Kempo Karate is derived from Kajukenbo through a lineage of different masters, but I don't know how different the two are.

Does anybody who has studied both styles know the main differences between them?

My Shaolin Kempo Karate teacher is Marlon Wilson of the Tom Ingargiola system (not Fred Villari) and the Kajukenbo class is taught by Philip Gelinas. I think I will try out Kajukenbo for at least a month after my contract for Shaolin Kempo expires, but I just want to know how much will I be able to bring with me from Shaolin Kempo to Kajukenbo.
Aeternus, I hope this information will be helpful...for what its worth, formerly from Montreal, I would not only recommend study with Philip Gelinas but would also add that you would be extremely fortunate to learn from him. Let me give you a little background. Though Philip and I trained at different dojos, myself on Decarie Blvd. and Philip on "The Main" St.Laurent St., the network was such that, respect was earned (not given) among the better clubs and / or students. On every occasion, be it at a tournament, a seminar, or on the street, Philip was always true to character as being a champion and a class act! If you are serious, then learn from the best, and that may take a few years!
 

Sensei Manny

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Aeternus, I hope this information will be helpful...for what its worth, formerly from Montreal, I would not only recommend study with Philip Gelinas but would also add that you would be extremely fortunate to learn from him. Let me give you a little background. Though Philip and I trained at different dojos, myself on Decarie Blvd. and Philip on "The Main" St.Laurent St., the network was such that, respect was earned (not given) among the better clubs and / or students. On every occasion, be it at a tournament, a seminar, or on the street, Philip was always true to character as being a champion and a class act! If you are serious, then learn from the best, and that may take a few years!
Montreal: If in fact you are training with Philip Gelinas or have contact with him, could you please give me his contact information and / or ask him to contact me at Londonkaratedo.com...Appreciated!
 

SK101

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I'm currently signed up for a Shaolin Kempo Karate class, but I have recently found out about a kajukenbo school here in Montreal. I do like my Shaolin Kempo class and I think I have a good teacher (although I have no one to compare him too). However, I've been reading up on Kajukenbo and it really interests me. I know Shaolin Kempo Karate is derived from Kajukenbo through a lineage of different masters, but I don't know how different the two are.

Does anybody who has studied both styles know the main differences between them?

My Shaolin Kempo Karate teacher is Marlon Wilson of the Tom Ingargiola system (not Fred Villari) and the Kajukenbo class is taught by Philip Gelinas. I think I will try out Kajukenbo for at least a month after my contract for Shaolin Kempo expires, but I just want to know how much will I be able to bring with me from Shaolin Kempo to Kajukenbo.
I'm currently signed up for a Shaolin Kempo Karate class, but I have recently found out about a kajukenbo school here in Montreal. I do like my Shaolin Kempo class and I think I have a good teacher (although I have no one to compare him too). However, I've been reading up on Kajukenbo and it really interests me. I know Shaolin Kempo Karate is derived from Kajukenbo through a lineage of different masters, but I don't know how different the two are.

Does anybody who has studied both styles know the main differences between them?

My Shaolin Kempo Karate teacher is Marlon Wilson of the Tom Ingargiola system (not Fred Villari) and the Kajukenbo class is taught by Philip Gelinas. I think I will try out Kajukenbo for at least a month after my contract for Shaolin Kempo expires, but I just want to know how much will I be able to bring with me from Shaolin Kempo to Kajukenbo.
Your instructor is a great instructor, but at the end of the day a good Shaolin Kempo instructor and a good Kajukenbo instructor will both get you where you are wanting to go. Wherever you feel comfortable will be great for you.
 

Blindside

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Your instructor is a great instructor, but at the end of the day a good Shaolin Kempo instructor and a good Kajukenbo instructor will both get you where you are wanting to go. Wherever you feel comfortable will be great for you.
This may not be quite the oldest example of thread necromancy that I have ever seen but it is close. Given that the original post was from 2004 The OP at this point may be a 5th degree blackbelt with 3 satellite schools under him. :D Or quit kenpo altogether and is now a BJJ professor.
 
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