Acceptance of Rank

[ProfessorKenpo]

This is a two part question really.


1) Would you take rank from someone who's principles or standards about the art you didn't agree with, and if so, why?


2) What does it mean to you to accept the next rank?


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[jfarnsworth]

Well to answer question #1 I will say no to. The reason being is I would feel I cheated the art and myself if I just accepted a new rank from someone. I personally would like to add more to the curriculum I'm on. When looking through book 5 at the requirements then at mine sometimes I feel like I have not received everything in a whole. Our class works off of a 16/20 curriculum with only 3 sets in there (blocking, kicking & finger). Mr. C. has a great set of requirements with a lot of knowledge. At his seminar I went to he had a 7yr. old girl doing his requirements while i just stood there. Not that I couldn't do what she was but I needed to be taught the ways of his system to do so. When reading some posts on this forum or others I can't always follow them and it makes me feel uncomfortable if I'm the same rank & can't do the same things b/c I wasn't taught.

Now on to question #2. To me accepting the next rank is like a right of passage to move onto the next set of requirements. That during the test whomever is giving the test deems you worthy of the rank or degree that you tested for. It is a good feeling when you know after putting in many hrs. in and out of class the instructor(s) testing you gives the front kick and your moving to new material.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo

This is a two part question really.


1) Would you take rank from someone who's principles or standards about the art you didn't agree with, and if so, why?


2) What does it mean to you to accept the next rank?


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

1. No- if they are not my teacher they have no business doing that. If I don't agree with most of their views they would not be my teacher anyways right?

2. That my teacher recognized my work as being on another level.


What principles do you not agree with?

 

[satans.barber]

1) Would you take rank from someone who's principles or standards about the art you didn't agree with, and if so, why?

Yes I would, and yes I have. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make what they think wrong, so why wouldn't I? Also there is often no other choice, there are some things that the man who grades me does and says that I really don't agree with, but if I didn't get graded by him I'd have to leave kenpo altogether and go to some other style, which I don't want to do.

2) What does it mean to you to accept the next rank?

That I am being rewarded for my efforts, commitment and achievement, and hopefully that my instructor now has more respect for my skills than he did before.

Ian.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Personally, I couldn't and won't accept rank from someone I didn't agree with about the art, it's principles, foundations, etc., and if that meant moving on, then I've done that as well, found someone who did agree in action and thought, been ecstatically happy since. I was just curious if others had been, or are, in that position.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo

1) Would you take rank from someone who's principles or standards about the art you didn't agree with, and if so, why?

Absolutely not. You should only accept rank from your current teacher. If you don't like them, then you should go thru proper channels and change. Anything other than that is dishonorable in my book.

But many do not care ..... only that they get a rank from someone who is willing to give or sell it away.

2) What does it mean to you to accept the next rank?

If promoted properly, it is a gesture from your instructor that has watched you toil and work thru the system, struggle and gain knowledge with time. It is then the privilege of the instructor to "award" this advancement for work "DONE" under his guidance. It is now a privilege and honor to work even more to continue to be worthy of the rank that I wear and achieve and share more.

:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



If promoted properly, it is a gesture from your instructor that has watched you toil and work thru the system, struggle and gain knowledge with time. It is then the privilege of the instructor to "award" this advancement for work "DONE" under his guidance. It is now a privilege and honor to work even more to continue to be worthy of the rank that I wear and achieve and share more.

:asian:

And share you do -salute-

:asian:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Dennis, I never said anything about disliking your instructor (why would you even be there if you didn't think they were a good person?) , just if you had different philosophies than them. It would seem you misunderstood the question. Morality is a completely different issue of which I've been thru that as well. My question was directed to those that would accept rank if the person offering it to them didn't have the same feelings about the art or where it should go than themselves. For instance, I believe the terminology of the EPAK system is extremely important to the welfare of the art, and there are others that do not take this view. I personally wouldn't take rank from those without the same philosophies of the art as myself.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[satans.barber]

I hope i'm not going to be chided for honesty.

Is it not worth pointing out that it's our different opinions that make us individuals? I thought kenpo was about individuality?

I don't see what this problem is where you have to be on the same train of thought as your instructor or you leave?

I think people need to cite examples to make it clearer.

Things my instructor has done that I don't agree with:

* Cut EPAK down a little too far so too much of the understanding has been removed. We don't do any forms,. and yet he wonders why everyone's stance work is sloppy...go figure.

* Last week he failed and entire junior class and an entire senior class in one morning, treating them as two wholes instead of 40+ individuals. Many of those people should have passed with flying colours.

* He shows you a technique one way, you learn it, he changes it, you learn the new way, he comes back up and tells you you're doing it wrong, you remind him he made the changes last time he was up, he denies it....ad infinitum. He'll never accept that he's wrong.

* Never praises, only criticises.

* Never acknowledges when you're progressed, only notes when you haven't.

* Acts in an intimidating manner

I'm bored of typing this now, I could probably think of 5 more. Is this cause, under your ethos, for me to move schools? Where would I go?

These are complaints about the man who grades us by the way, since this is about accepting rank, these are not complaints about my sensei. Two different men.

From kenpo I could only leave to another kenpo school (there are none within about 100 miles), JKD (again no local ones) or Kung Fu (again, no local ones). I don't think I'd be happy in anything else.

I live 6 miles outside of the city, 2 minutes from a kenpo school. Given the very very low numbers of kenpo schools in Britain I class it as a miricle that I live on the doorstep of one, so there's no way I'm leaving.

Ian.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Ian, I applaud your honesty, tenacity, and selfworth values, it seems your instructor needs some instructing themselves, but bang on till you meet someone who does agree with you. Until then, happy Kenpo.

Have a great day

Clyde

 

[jeffkyle]

I guess in my book that would have to depend on how different our philosophies were. If there were just a few differences that were minor, i think i could work around that, but if we were totally opposite on our views then i wouldn't accept rank from them if i couldn't even agree with them about the Art. However, that is something a person develops until they have been in the art a while and have seen several different people to base your philosophy on. By then you should have been in the art long enough to make an informed decision.

And accepting rank from someone means that you feel that they are on the same path you are on regarding the art, and you believe they are where you want to be. And them promoting you means that they recognize your skill, development, and hard work.

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo

This is a two part question really.


1) Would you take rank from someone who's principles or standards about the art you didn't agree with, and if so, why?


2) What does it mean to you to accept the next rank?


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Clyde,
Question 1: To be honest, I have in the past....would I do it now? No. I have went through a "mail order" black belt type thing in the past before I knew alot about what being a martial artist meant. I have Jeff Kyle to thank for alot of that hes a good friend and an outstanding teacher I should have went to class with him in high school instead of wondering the hallways. Now I feel it isnt right and I wear what color I should be and earned proudly. So I guess that was then this is now and Im a little older so I say no.
Question 2: A new beggining, every rank should be another step in your journey, its symbolic of the past, youve conquered your goals, symbolic of the present, you think about where you are at and accept it. It also represents your next step and goal which will be the future and this I learned very recently you will always be a begginer and a belt helps to show what lever of begginer you are.


My 2 cents...dont take any wooden nickles!

Brian Hunter

 

[Kirk]

I think there's a difference before black and after. I'm learning
my instructor's curriculum, and there's a method to his madness
therein. I wouldn't accept a purple belt from anyone other than
my instructor, because I'm there to learn what HE has to teach
me, regardless of what others think of my personal skill level.
But there's an exception ... I'll get to that in a sec. Let's say
that as an orange belt, I can peform all techs,forms, basics that
is required for a blue belt. Yet my instructor has a minimum time
in grade before you can test. Then along comes (for example)
Mr Tatum giving a seminar in my school. He feels (and I'm not
saying he'd do this, I just grabbed his name randomly) that I
deserve a blue belt, and hands me a certificate. I would definitely
take the certificate, because heck, it's Mr Tatum's signature, and
it's a hell of a compliment. But I would wear the belt my instructor
last promoted me to, ALWAYS. Because I'm in his school, and
I'm paying HIM to teach me, HIS way.

Now to the exception, as minor as it is. My instructor's instructor
is Huk. My instructor teaches the curriculum Mr Planas has laid
out for him. The students in my school wear a patch that says,
"Parker/Planas Lineage". So a repeat of the above scenario
would carry a bit more weight because in essence, Huk is also
my instructor, is he not? Now I wouldn't be so bold as to tell
my instructor ( the owner of the school ) "Hey! Huk promoted me
to this color, so I'm wearing it". But I would probably (ya never
KNOW .. this is all theory) go to my instructor and try to make a
strong case for wearing that higher belt. And I think my instructor
would probably allow it. He would still have the final say though!
If anyone else promoted me, I'd tell my instructor about it, but I
wouldn't even think about asking if I could BE that rank, cause
I just wouldn't want to, unless it came from him.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
1)Would you take rank from someone who's principles or standards about the art you didn't agree with, and if so, why?

Sure. Why not? What do I care? If some walks up to me, gives me a belt and a cert and says "I think you should be this rank." I would say thank you and then just continue doing what I like doing anyway. It doesn't mean i'm gonna wear his rank nor does it mean I won't tell people who he gave it to me or how. If he asks me for some money I'll tell him to stuff it in his ear. Having said that I also won't try to get ahead based on that rank.

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
2)What does it mean to you to accept the next rank?

New shoes. My belt has to match my shoes.
Just kidding.
To me it doesn't mean anything. Anyone I train under shows me information. I never want to be one of those @ssholes you meet at seminars who parade their rank around like it means you should kiss their butt.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I never want to be one of those @ssholes you meet at seminars who parade their rank around like it means you should kiss their butt.

Agreed ... but some can feel pressure, or discredited as a result
of NOT having a black belt. Ed Parker Jr said he only got his to
shut people up. Can't say I blame him.

 

[Chiduce]

Question #1. Yes. I have in the past not agreed with my sifu and he not agreed with me. Yet, i was not disrespectful to him about our differences. A week after our disagreement on the art and his and my systems, his sifu disagreed with him and through him out of his house. The domino effect i guess. Now we are sharing each other's systems philosophy's, likenesses and differences. The disagreements brought us closer together. Odd , yet it did. Question#2. Yes. This is what we learn for. Some disciples never get rank other than disciple. My sifu's teacher did not give out rank. Other teachers within my area follow the same principles of not confering rank. Recognition and rank for them came from others whom saw and experienced their knowledge, abilities, and present skills. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Chronuss]

you know, about the rank...I've had my black belt for two months now...and I think I've worn it three times. once at the test, once when I got home to see what it looked like with a black gi( I'll speak a bit more about this later), and I got bamboozled into wearing at a tourney cause Sensei got me to judge children's forms...oy. at that test...there were so many things that bothered me. they didnt' throw sidekicks correctly, they rather stomp on the plywood floor to see how loud they could be instead of step, so many things. I personally just feel weird wearing it, which is why I refuse to wear it, even though I had permission, in the Kenpo dojo. I just...don't feel that rank yet...I dunno, weird to explain.



the reason I said I put on a black gi is because it was my black belt in TKD...being so, I had to wear a white gi at the test, a white gi I had to purchase to wear that one time, that I wanted to rip off and run over by the car. As soon as I got outta the test and into the car, I told Sensei Seigel (Kenpo Sensei, he went to the TKD test with me for support) that I was gonna dye it black.

 

[Seig]

I have to add that he was not amused when I tried to get a quart of milk from him in a glass bottle or failing that a Nutty Buddy:roflmao:

 

[Chronuss]

Hardy friggin' har har...my sides are splitting...make it stop (please note the sarcasm..)

 

[Seig]

Sarcasm noted....Note the foot headed your way.