A question.

[cali_tkdbruin]

And Mike Vick thought dogfighting was cool too, now look where he is. He's got not only NFL commissioner Roger Goodell on his ***, but now the Feds are in on it. As Jim Romey said "The feds…you know, ‘The G-Men’…the cats in white shirts, blue suits and dark glasses".

IMHO, it's not worth the excitement or hassle. You boys might want to consider training some more and when yall think you're ready, go audition for the UFC. But what do I know... :idunno:

 

[stone_dragone]

If you or your friends are paying for your own health insurance and are ready to pay each other's hosptial bills, then as a believer in natural selection I go agaist the grain of this thread and encourage you to go hog wild in your back yard training. However, please don't call it MMA, UFC, WWE or anything else other than what it is...a dangerous amateur fight club which I am sure that your actual instructors would disapprove of and admonish you to cut that **** out.

I know it's not a very good idea, but if you give me explainations or examples then I can take them into my head and understand it.

So let me get this straight...you know it's a bad idea and you are gonna do it anyway...Wait, you've already done it...

I understand that anything can happen and that has gone through my head many times, and I have selected the worst case scenerio, and it's at my house and I told my friends that if they agree to do this and they get hurt it is their own fault for agreeing to do such a thing.

Me and my friends have done these things before... we didn't get hurt last time because we had precautions for it. I know that SOMETHING can happen, but that's just the price everyone makes when they do something dangerous.

The above discussion sounds like the one my college fraternity used before they got busted after a party..."We know we can get busted, but it's never happened before to us..." It sounded like a dumb argument to me then, too. You are just paying lip-service to the risks that are inherent with what you want to do/are doing. You are playing Russian roulette with your friends lives. Put down the gun before someone gets hurt.

BTW, I hesitate to ask, but what age demographic do you fit into? Are you a contributing member of adult society or are you a contributing writer on the High School paper?

 

[kidswarrior]

please don't call it MMA, UFC, WWE or anything else other than what it is...a dangerous amateur fight club which I am sure that your actual instructors would disapprove of and admonish you to cut that **** out.

The above discussion sounds like the one my college fraternity used before they got busted after a party..."We know we can get busted, but it's never happened before to us..." It sounded like a dumb argument to me then, too. You are just paying lip-service to the risks that are inherent with what you want to do/are doing. You are playing Russian roulette with your friends lives. Put down the gun before someone gets hurt.

I quoted AC because he was the last one to post before me, but virtually everyone has said what I feel, too: bad idea.

If a cumulative total of probably several hundred years of MA experience, including many, many black belts and professional fight teachers and trainers, are telling you it's a bad idea, you may want to give that some weight.

BTW, I hesitate to ask, but what age demographic do you fit into? Are you a contributing member of adult society or are you a contributing writer on the High School paper?

I was young once, too, a couple of lifetimes ago, and no one could tell me anything, either. As Drac said, only by the grace of God....

 

[NinjaBurr]

We just had it today, and I made everyone sign a wager generally saying that if they get hurt, it's their own fault and so forth.

It went well actually and people want to do it again. Although we didn't go too rough because I mean it's their first time. But the advice you guys gave me made me tone down the violence of the game, so no punches to the face and only body shots, just for now.


Thanks guys.

 

[bluekey88]

And it is still an unbeleivably, fantastically BAD idea. You're messing with fire.

Peace,
Erik

 

[jks9199]

We just had it today, and I made everyone sign a wager generally saying that if they get hurt, it's their own fault and so forth.

It went well actually and people want to do it again. Although we didn't go too rough because I mean it's their first time. But the advice you guys gave me made me tone down the violence of the game, so no punches to the face and only body shots, just for now.


Thanks guys.

I'm glad nobody got hurt.

But unless you're a lawyer and can afford the advice of one who actually knows what he's doing -- and the fact that you wrote "wager" instead of any misspelling of "waiver" strongly suggests you're not -- you'd be well, well, very well advised not to do it.

In some states, waivers for athletic events only demonstrate that participants were advised of the risks, and participated voluntarily. They don't do anything about the civil liability on the person doing it.

Apart from that little issue... How were you prepared to deal with a simple, stupid accident, like someone hitting there head in a fall, or a broken limb from a lock? How about just someone stepping on a sharp rock, glass or nail? That's why there's a lot of prep for a real event. Doing something like this in your backyard is just an invitation for tons of problems.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I have 2 attorneys who have said that 95% ofthe waivers used aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

Also, kids can't sign em. Gotta be parents. So, some dumb 15 yr old signs it, and gets hurt, guess who's *** is liable? Not theirs.

 

[Gemini]

I have 2 attorneys who have said that 95% ofthe waivers used aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

Also, kids can't sign em. Gotta be parents. So, some dumb 15 yr old signs it, and gets hurt, guess who's *** is liable? Not theirs.

True statement. It's likely that a waiver, regardless of how well it's written, will not be enough to protect you in a civil court. To make matters worse, those people that would NEVER in a million years come after you financially often develop a whole new set of personality traits when faced with the opportunity of bagging some real money. I've seen it happen many times. It's human nature and unfortunately, more often than not, those that don't give in to the temptation, are coerced by their local ambulence chaser. Either way, you lose.

I think enough people have answered that though it's true nothing bad may happens, you have to be aware that you're putting yourself in harms' way. All good intentions will be meaningless when the bad comes. If you still want to follow through with this eyes wide open, that not only you, but others will have to stand by, and live with, that decision.

 

[MBuzzy]

I have 2 attorneys who have said that 95% ofthe waivers used aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

Also, kids can't sign em. Gotta be parents. So, some dumb 15 yr old signs it, and gets hurt, guess who's *** is liable? Not theirs.

True statement. It's likely that a waiver, regardless of how well it's written, will not be enough to protect you in a civil court.

In some cases, even a "waiver" written by an attorney and notarized can still be overturned in court. Just because they know and signed doesn't mean that they won't get a good lawyer who can argue that since you HAD them sign, you were fully aware of the risks and did it anyway, and are therefore liable.

On top of that...what if it is YOU who gets hurt?? Hopefully you have good health insurance that covers this type of thing. There are definately types of Health insurance out there that won't cover you if you are engaged in something like this....

Just something to think about, you have obviously made up your mind, so I wish you best of luck and I hope that no one gets hurt.

 

[whitetiger2001]

You said you've done this before and nothing happened. It only takes once. Just because I've never been hit by a car while crossing the street, doesn't mean that it won't happen the next time. Ths is a really bad idea.
Others have spoken about the legal problems that migt result from this what about asbout the mental and social stigma that would result if the very worst happened. Maybe your opponant moves the wrong way on a techniue and is severelly injured or even killed, waver or not, are you prepared for the consequences. Leaving aside the legal implications, are you prepared mentally for the results if you accidently kill a close friend. Can you handle that? Can you deal with the way you'll be seen by your sensei and fellow students afterwards?
There is no question, the training we have makes us extremelly destructive, we know things that give us an edge in a self defense situation and it's for that reason that trainng like you descrinbe should be done in a supervised setting with the proper precautions. I canot stress enough the facxt that this is a very bad idea.

 

[NinjaBurr]

I highly doubt we will do it again, friends wanted to try it out and so we did. But the advice you guys gave me me tone it down so no one got seriously hurt for it. For me I'll just stick to my Martial Arts in my local Dojo.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Good for you Ninja. It's never good to play with fire...

 

[NinjaBurr]

Haha, unless you know the way to cool it down.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Everyone else has talked about why you shouldn't do it and I recommend you take what they say seriously. However, that's how I learned to fight. Something I didn't "get" about my karate training. Are you sure you understand what you're doing? Most of it was just no-gloves boxing and wrestling thrown in. It resembled MMA but we never called it that. Some neighbors called the cops on us too. It will teach you a way to fight if you last long enough to learn anything. The most common serious injuries were to the knees. None of us have good knees anymore. We all creak and krik and sound like old men now.

 

[Last Fearner]

Everyone else has talked about why you shouldn't do it and I recommend you take what they say seriously. However, that's how I learned to fight....

...It will teach you a way to fight if you last long enough to learn anything.

This brings up a good point. I would agree that it is possible to learn some things about fighting, or effective self defense, over time in these kinds of unorthodox training environments. I am sure that there are many who have been lucky enough to survive and become very skilled.

Of course, there is a tendency for this to be a "trial and error" type of learning environment which typically takes longer than if you learn from someone who already knows what they are doing. Also, the warnings from others come, not because you can not possibly benefit from backyard shenanigans, but because of the great risk to life and limb.

As I read the above post by MacIntosh, I agreed with the general point, and couldn't help but realize that many people do things this way. However, a thought came to my mind in which I compared this process to the discovery of flight. Although Orville and Wilbur Wright are noted as being the first to achieve sustained powered airplane flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina on December 17, 1903 (quick history lesson), you might say that they were not the first to fly, but the first to not crash and die while trying.

Many other inventors tried, unsuccessfully, for years to build and fly airplanes. Many of them died in their early test flights. What if the Wright brothers had died in accidents before 1903. Discovery of flight might have been delayed for an unknown period of time, and it would have been to someone else's credit. Perhaps one or more of the previous inventors might have been genius enough to have invented the first airplane before the Wright brothers, but never got the chance because they died from an early mistake.

Yes, sometimes we take risks for the sake of progress, but it is wise to take calcualated risks with expert input and experience. By the 1900's, the Wright brothers were already very knowledgeable and successful inventors, and engineers. They ran many tests on more than 200 wing designs, and over 1000 glider flights. They were certainly not amateurs playing around in an open field, or someone's back yard. Perhaps those who died trying to do what the Wright brothers did were not so careful, and calculated in the risks they took!

Just something to think about.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Or there's pit fighting...

 

[tradrockrat]

well I'll admit it - my friends and I used to beat the hell out of each other whenever we could. Took it seriously too. We would get our gear on and someone would ref it and we would decide the rules and then just fight for hours in the barn, woods, back yard, parking lot, whatever.

Now when some of us started really fighting (tournies, etc,) we cut that out. Not because it was dangerous, but because we learned so much more in the gym and were too damn tired to fight any time else!

looking back on it I would say that if you want to fight - get together with a good instructor in a good gym.

 

[NinjaBurr]

Haha, my friends haven't said a word about this since last week. Good sign for them I guess