9/11--Was it an inside job?

[Big Don]

Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Because Popular Mechanics is run by the government?

If we catch them in a lie, then we have found our culprits...and if I and other "Truthers" are wrong, what happens.....Nothing at all, except maybe we will shut up about it.

That's the funniest thing I've read this week.

 

[elder999]

Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Alls I ask for is further investigation by an independent group.

Putting all conjecture aside, all theories, etc

What happened on 9/11 was horrible, and if the 9/11 Commission report is 100% correct then the Government has nothing at all to fear by having a third party look into it deeper.

There are plenty of non profit groups out there ready to do hard research on the events.

So really the question is, why not have someone else take a look? Get more info on the situation, more points for view...more in depth research. It won't hurt anybody will it? If anything it will give more closure to the families. The only people it would possibly hurt are those who are living the lie of the commission report and the NIST reports(Government run research company, that researched why the towers fell at free fall speeds.)

If we catch them in a lie, then we have found our culprits...and if I and other "Truthers" are wrong, what happens.....Nothing at all, except maybe we will shut up about it.

Well, as Don pointed out, Popular Mechanics has pretty much debunked every single stinking little truther farrago there is.

Additionally, this webpage says:

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks. The Commission is also mandated to provide recommendations designed to guard against future attacks

 

[Sensei Payne]

The commission was set up and run by our very own government...

it can't be trusted to be the full truth.

 

[Makalakumu]

No one knows what happened. No investigation has really dug out this story. For some reason, the people posting in this thread need to believe this version of events...and this isn't going to be changed over a discussion of the internet. It actually takes a lot of soul searching to sit back and consider both sides of this issue and admit that you don't know what happened.

 

[Makalakumu]

You are being disrespectful. You are in denial. By even going anywhere near the words "controlled demolition" you are doubting the actual happenings.

Save your judgment for yourself.

What are you going to do as this number grows?

As for why it happened, you can look at this thread:

Then you believe it was an inside job. Blowback = inside job.

Save your judgment for yourself. When you consider the horror of our foreign policy and the destruction we spread across the globe, the step toward letting it happen on purpose and making it happen on purpose becomes smaller and smaller.

You're almost there and you are criticizing people who are one or two steps ahead.

 

[Big Don]

Save your judgment for yourself.

What are you going to do as this number grows?

I will continue to point and laugh and pity the crazy people.

Then you believe it was an inside job. Blowback = inside job.

That is an insane conclusion. Did you miss this:

They did it because we support Israel, because we meddle in their affairs, and because we’re over there.

Save your judgment for yourself. When you consider the horror of our foreign policy

Oh the horror, sending billions of dollars for food and medicine, what bastards we are...

and the destruction we spread across the globe, the step toward letting it happen on purpose and making it happen on purpose becomes smaller and smaller.

You're almost there and you are criticizing people who are one or two steps ahead.[/quote]
Being steps ahead on the road to forcible commitment isn't an enviable position.

 

[Sensei Payne]

Oh the horror, sending billions of dollars for food and medicine, what bastards we are...

You are aware that we are the reason why the drug cartels, the Taliban, and Al queda all have Automatic weapons right?

 

[Big Don]

You are aware that we are the reason why the drug cartels, the Taliban, and Al queda all have Automatic weapons right?

Yeah, because they are a cheap, easy way to intimidate people, as well as being effective people killers.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Plus the ATF helped supply the cartels, and the CIA trained both the Taliban and Osama's buddies.

 

[Makalakumu]

I will continue to point and laugh and pity the crazy people.That is an insane conclusion. Oh the horror, sending billions of dollars for food and medicine, what bastards we are...Being steps ahead on the road to forcible commitment isn't an enviable position.

Blowback = inside job because blowback means our foreign policy caused the attacks. As far as main points in the narrative go, how about "they attacked us because of our freedom" bit? You just posted a refutation of the official story. How about considering your own position?

 

[Big Don]

Blowback = inside job because blowback means our foreign policy caused the attacks.

If their reaction to our foreign policy is why THEY ATTACKED, that does NOT make the US Government complicit. It isn't our fault they are murderous animals, that is their choice.

As far as main points in the narrative go, how about "they attacked us because of our freedom" bit? You just posted a refutation of the official story. How about considering your own position?

"they attacked us because of our freedom" was never given as the sole reason, ever, not once.

They did it because we support Israel, because we meddle in their affairs, and because we’re over there.

Refutes the official story? How?

 

[Makalakumu]

It isn't our fault they are murderous animals, that is their choice.

This says all we need to know about why you believe what you believe.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Funny question time.

How many terrorist attacks have there been against the following nations since 1990:
Canada
Australia
New Zealand

Now how many against the US? UK? Israel?

Now compare the amount of mid-east medling those 6 nations do.

I wonder what we'd find?

 

[Big Don]

Funny question time.

How many terrorist attacks have there been against the following nations since 1990:
Canada
Australia
New Zealand

Now how many against the US? UK? Israel?

Now compare the amount of mid-east medling those 6 nations do.

I wonder what we'd find?

I wouldn't include Israel's existence in the term meddling...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I would, considering that prior to 1948 it didn't exist. I also look at the actions of it's military in ship seizures, the execution of civilians in towns under their control, and a long list of atrocities. However if it will make anyone feel better, they can leave the actions of the nation of Israel out of the equation and simply compare the other 5.

 

[Big Don]

I would, considering that prior to 1948 it didn't exist.

Saudi Arabia wasn't a nation until 1932, Jordan since 1921, and Iran in 1938, but, their mere existence you don't blame?

I also look at the actions of it's military in ship seizures,

Would you let someone supply the neighbor that keeps shooting at your home? I sure as hell would not.

the execution of civilians in towns under their control, and a long list of atrocities.

Which, compared to the atrocities committed against them make them pikers.

However if it will make anyone feel better, they can leave the actions of the nation of Israel out of the equation and simply compare the other 5.

Yeah, I tend to fly into a murderous rage when people give me boatloads of money and aid too...

 

[elder999]

Save your judgment for yourself.

What are you going to do as this number grows?

I've posted elsewhere-I'm not going to bother looking for it-about how when I arrived in Los Alamos, the town was going through a lot of conflict over teaching "Intelligent Design" in the schools system, most of it led by a lab chemist named John Baumgartner-a good scientist who is more than capable of twisting the evidence to his own ends. "Intelligent Design," you'll agree, John, isn't a valid theory in the scientific sense of the word; it is, at best, a postulate, or hypothesis-it is neither testable nor disprovable.

So, what are you going to do as this list grows?

A list of creation scientists who are/were contributors to science

• Dr. Raymond Damadian – Inventor of the MRI device
• Dr. Raymond Jones – CSIRO Gold Medal; detoxified Leucaena for livestock consumption
• Dr. Keith Wanser – 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents (Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)
• Dr. Russell Humphreys – Successful planetary magnetic predictions (nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )
• Dr. Kurt Wise – Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard
• Jules H. Poirier – Designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar Landing Module
• Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa – Discovered seven new species of fish in the Congo
• Dr. Saami Shaibani – “International Expert” by the US Depts of Labor and Justice; 100 published articles; B.A. (Hon.), M.A., M.S., D.Ph.; physics professor and researcher

I mean, how many world-class scientists does it take to convince you that there is a God? :lfao:

Of course, people are free to believe whatever crap they like. I believe that by occasionally staying up all night in a hot, smoky teepee with a bunch of other people, singing and praying throughout the night while eating bitter hallucinogenic cactus, we can have communion with the Creator. Some of these guys, in spite of all evidence to the contrary (and there are lots, and lots and lots more of them on that list) believe that the earth is young to the tune of less than 10,000 years old, that conventional science has got it all wrong, and that the universe was set in motion by that same Creator in seven 24 hr. (rather than allegorical) days.


So yeah, as your list grows, so does the one I've shown. And the one of otherwise competent scientists who believe in Bigfoot, Roswell aliens, the Chupacabra, HAARP weather control experiments, the secret Nazi base at the center of the earth and it's entrance in Anarctica, Atlantis, the lost kingdom of Mu, the Illuminati, the Divine Immortals, the Count St. Germain, Tesla's death ray, and the Loch Ness Monster.

So, I'll probably say the same thing I'm saying right now, John: So ****ing what?

Then you believe it was an inside job. Blowback = inside job.

This is insulting to both of us. That you can twist the meaning of blowback to equate it with an inside job is completely beneath you. Yes, our actions and our foreign policy have-and continue to have-grave consequences. Yes, I'll say-and take the heat for it-that 9/11 was a case of our own chickens coming home to roost. That's not an inside job, and not at all what Sensei Payne, you and the rest of the truthers imply when you call into doubt the evidence of what happened and its interpretation-to say otherwise is completely dishonest, and I thought better of you, at least, than that.

Save your judgment for yourself. When you consider the horror of our foreign policy and the destruction we spread across the globe, the step toward letting it happen on purpose and making it happen on purpose becomes smaller and smaller.

You're almost there and you are criticizing people who are one or two steps ahead.

Ahead of what, exactly, John? I've lived down the rabbit hole for a long time, now, wishing I'd taken the goddam blue pill. If I think about it, I can probably even come up with a demonstration that doesn't completely violate OPSEC to at least give you a hint of the things that I know about, well ahead of you.

In the meantime, though, you're so full of the machine's disinformation you only think you're ahead, when, in reality,truthers-are just a sad, relatively intelligent schlubs (schlub:nobody) who believe everything they read, and what they read happens to be crap; all too often, they suffer from overspecialization (one look at my resume shows that I'm way not guilty of that) which has led to an inability to discern the big picture, and over focus on the details-the "science" behind the truther movement is a good example: a bunch of guys who got wrapped up around a detail here or there and think "aha!" when the reality is the bigger picture that they're not seeing-you know, the one where the goddam planes were crashed into the building.

Of course, if you want to think there were elements of the government that knew 9/11 or something like it was coming and did nothing so they could take advantage of it later, that is another story altogether, and not exactly an "inside job." If you want to talk about glaring sins in how seriously the threat was taken and the glaring sins of omission and commision that took place in the years after the first WTC attack, that's another story, and one worthy of discussion, though, again, ala Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor,most of us will never really know, because, contrary to popular belief, people can keep secrets, and we do.

But if you want to talk about controlled demolitions, secret removals of vast amounts of gold prior to the attack, or the suspect nature of the collapse of WTC7, well, you're right there with Atlanteans, the Count St. Germain, Tesla's death ray, HAARP conspirasists, those "contrail" nutters (knew I left someone out the last time :lfao: ) and UFO abductees as far as I'm concerned: down the road and around that corner where the buses don't go anymore, on Crazy Street.

Or, maybe, Just Plain Ignorant Drive. :lfao:

 

[elder999]

Saudi Arabia wasn't a nation until 1932, Jordan since 1921, and Iran in 1938, but, their mere existence you don't blame?

Oh yeah. Blame their existence too-after all, they largely exist as problems because of our meddling, especially Iran.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I just made a point. Not going to get into the Israel thing here. But one side committing atrocities doesn't excuse another from doing similar. I wonder though if you think it was ok for them to open fire on a former US Congresswoman's ship......or block medical aid for weeks while they mop up witnesses in one town.....or run a bulldozer over a protester (unarmed).
But that's another topic I think.

Ignore Israel.

Compare the meddling rates of the US, UK, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, then cross reference them with Islamic Terrorist attacks against sovereign targets.
I wonder who will top the "we stuck our noses in the hornets nest lots of times. Whyd we get stung? I don't understand" list.

I bet it's those damn annoying Canadians.

 

[Makalakumu]

So yeah, as your list grows, so does the one I've shown.

What is the ultimately the deciding factor in all cases, in all lists?

This is insulting to both of us. That you can twist the meaning of blowback to equate it with an inside job is completely beneath you.

The idea deserves considering that a choice was made KNOWING that blowback may happen. And then there are those who said they really WANT blowback to happen. And then there are those who said they really NEED blowback to happen. And then there are those who just went out made it happen.

Ahead of what, exactly, John?

It's just a matter of scale. Look at the scale of atrocity we've perpetrated before and after 9/11 and ask yourself if people could let it happen or even plan it. That's all I meant. I'm not some supermind.

Just think about it and merge the scales of what has happened. It's not that big of a jump ahead to LIHOP or MIHOP.